03-10-2003 01:41									#1
	The end to Global Warming is at hand. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

STMicroelectronics, Europe's largest semiconductor maker, has invented a cheap solar cell that can make the production of electricity using the cell cheaper than the production of electricity through power plants.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztec...reut/index.html

What if every house in the world used these cells? What if they had electic cars recharged by the sun? No more global warming? You bet.

What we need to do is get governments roll these cells out to every home using tax credits or the like.

This is great news!

	03-10-2003 01:43									#2
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That IS awesome

	03-10-2003 01:46									#3
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No, just no more acceleration of global warming.

But hooray for cheap fuel cells. Yay.

	03-10-2003 01:49									#4
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It will happen in 60 years- yahoo

	03-10-2003 01:53									#5
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It looks interesting but I'll wait and see. So many of these things fizzle out over one technical detail or another.

Also since they are half as efficient as normal solar cells they will require twice the space to generate the same amount of power. Solar energy already requires so much space that it is impractical in many cities. This will make it cheaper but only people with ALOT of spare room can use it.

	03-10-2003 01:58									#6
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Sounds great, but from the article -

The cells aren't 'stable'. Presumably they degrade too fast to be viable at the moment. We'll have to see if this changes; the whole field has been subjected to a lot of hype.

They haven't even got to half the efficiency of normal solar cells yet. They expect to, but that's no guarantee. Even if they do then it's still a question of twice as much land being needed.

Also, a major cost of a solar cell system for electricity would be storage for night-time use. This hasn't been solved.

Hopefully this will emerge fully and be of some help, but it's a bit soon to be heralding the end of global warming.

	03-10-2003 02:01									#7
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This is interesting, but they haven't even made it to prototype stage yet. Snags have a way of cropping up, especially when you are talking actual production, so how they could give a credible cost figure is beyond me.

	03-10-2003 02:04									#8
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looks like cool stuff.

Room isn't a problem, btw. If this could compete with fossil fuel, I've got the desert.

	03-10-2003 02:05									#9
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One thing that would be nice versus current photovoltaics is that presumably the production waste for one of these cells is less troublesome to deal with.

	03-10-2003 02:09									#10
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quote: This is interesting, but they haven't even made it to prototype stage yet. Snags have a way of cropping up, especially when you are talking actual production, so how they could give a credible cost figure is beyond me.

Couple notes on how things are made.

Prototype does not mean that there hasn't made. It means that one has not been made to meet the quoted criteria. Perhaps they have one that is 1/2 the size, cost 5x as much to make, or was made with "adequate" imperfections. Generally, bench scale models will be smaller, cost more to make, and not be as perfect as would a production line working model... or prototype.

Cost projections are done everyday on products far more complicated to fabricate or predict than solar panels or microchips. I am sure the product analyst know how to do this adequately...

Still, some wrinkles and snags will occur, but if they have gone as far to run a cost analyst they most likely are sure what those snags will be. Since I believe they have a defined process these snags will be nothing more than perfecting manufacturing machinery and possibly raw material classifications and identifications...

My biggest fear of this item not reaching market would be a Saudi oil tycoon offering more money than one would ever dream of making for the patent. Then, that tycoon buries that patent along with all the other desings he has (including the one for the perpetual motion machine) and does nothing with them.

	03-10-2003 02:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It looks interesting but I'll wait and see. So many of these things fizzle out over one technical detail or another.

Anyhow, if only half the amount invested into nuclear power research (**** EU) or into the Oil Industry but rather in alternative energies, we and our planet would be better off, even if one project or the other fails.

	03-10-2003 02:14									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Anyhow, if only half the amount invested into nuclear power research (**** EU) or into the Oil Industry but rather in alternative energies, we and our planet would be better off, even if one project or the other fails.

alternative energies are only able to cover a part, at max. in the end, fusion is the way to go. For example, even in our sun-blessed country, we have nights. So this could be great for filling in our needs during day, and, say, using it to desalinize water, and stuff like that, in the long run, it's really NOT an alternative. So the EU is actually quite smart. For europe, thinking that solar power is a viable alternative is rediculous.

The best way to generate power is fusion. end of story.

	03-10-2003 02:14									#13
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quote: This will make it cheaper but only people with ALOT of spare room can use it

And ALOT of sunshine. I don't think this will be the rage in Seatle or Vancouver.

	03-10-2003 02:20									#14
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quote: And ALOT of sunshine. I don't think this will be the rage in Seatle or Vancouver

Where does Seatle or Vancouver get their energy? If they're like California and the Bay Area (which is always over cast too) we get it from Texas... Hey Sloww hows the weather there?

quote: For example, even in our sun-blessed country, we have nights.

The sun is shining on half the planet at all times. And, by the way, we have methods by which to store energy.

	03-10-2003 02:22									#15
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quote: The sun is shining on half the planet at all times. And, by the way, we have methods by which to store energy.

I don't think I want to rely on Syria for my power cable connections.

	03-10-2003 02:24									#16
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Japher: Thanks for your info. Are you in production?

	03-10-2003 02:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DanS One thing that would be nice versus current photovoltaics is that presumably the production waste for one of these cells is less troublesome to deal with.

Yes, I've always had fun telling the greennicks how manufacturing their precious solar cells creates an obscene amount of heavy metals as well as carcinogens. Most of them run around scream that solar is the anwser but they don't even know the facts.

	03-10-2003 02:39									#18
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I'm in an argument with a friend of mine about what exactly the waste byproducts are for solar cells. I said that one of these is cyanide, but now can't back it up. Is there a good list of these available?

	03-10-2003 02:43									#19
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quote: Where does Seatle or Vancouver get their energy? If they're like California and the Bay Area (which is always over cast too) we get it from Texas... Hey Sloww hows the weather there?

How high's your power bill when you energy has to be carted all the way over there? You're paying for the degradation of power along that line. Not saying it's not possible; just saying there are other alternatives.

	03-10-2003 02:45									#20
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quote: Yes, I've always had fun telling the greennicks how manufacturing their precious solar cells creates an obscene amount of heavy metals as well as carcinogens

Silicon is some nasty, and highly reactive, stuff... I don't know what kind of waste is produced but:

quote: convert sunlight into electricity, are produced with expensive silicon, the same material used in most semiconductors. The French-Italian company expects cheaper organic materials such as plastics to bring down the price of producing energy

SO it looks like this process maybe be less expensive because it doesn't use the stuff (or as much)...

quote: Are you in production?

Yes. I do development, scale-up, and process optimization work.

	03-10-2003 02:49									#21
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WTF is it said to be expensive? It's fricking Sand!

	03-10-2003 03:57									#22
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quote: WTF is it said to be expensive? It's fricking Sand!

Si is in sand, but sand is not Si... they want the element and since it reacts with everything (due to 4 valance electrons) it is very hard to get that way (and very rare)... I am not exactly sure what they bond it with for storage, but it could be cianide or chlorine (both dangerous to work with)...