03-10-2003 20:26									#1
	Temple of Artemis : too strong ? Suffering from ads?

I have read in the recent past in this forum about that,and now that his screenshot has come I was wondering if it is too powerful.

A temple in every city ? It seems to me too much,at least on 50% of your cities should be better ?

No ?

Gunter

	03-10-2003 20:35									#2
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Every city on the same continent

I've heard too that the cities dissapear when the wonder goes obsolete

	03-10-2003 21:26									#3
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I don't think that the wonder will be too powerful - given that it's limited to the same continent and that it eventually turns obsolete.

EDIT: Just noticed I restated what Status already stated.

	03-10-2003 23:46									#4
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Dought the cities itself will disappear, but certiately cities whose only temple is the Temple of Artemis will sudenly have one more unhappy citizen when it expires.

I'm also not sure if this wonder is in the epic game; might just be in the wonder race conquest.

	04-10-2003 01:19									#5
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It's in the epic game where it goes obsolete and does so relatively quickly.

The temple would disappear. Also, unless they've changed things, you won't be able to build cathedrals in cities without temples built in them beforehand.

So it would give you an early lead in culture and help reduce unhappiness but it would hurt these slightly in the long run.

It's going to be very powerful for non-religious civs.

In the conquest, it might come near the end. We don't know.

	04-10-2003 01:35									#6
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Nor me has it correct. In the early middle ages you have a serious problem as nearly all your cities lose their temples just when you want them.

	04-10-2003 01:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Nor me has it correct. In the early middle ages you have a serious problem as nearly all your cities lose their temples just when you want them.

I LOVE it! More social turmoil and unpredictability!
Almost simulates my mod that enables the disappearance of luxury resources.

	04-10-2003 03:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Nor Me Also, unless they've changed things, you won't be able to build cathedrals in cities without temples built in them beforehand.

No, it doesn't work that way anymore. That was fixed awhile ago. Anyway, the chances are that the Temple of Artemis will be obsolete before Cathedrals can be built.

	04-10-2003 06:34									#9
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Don't you need Monotheism to get Education?

	04-10-2003 08:10									#10
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Dou you get cultural points in every city? As with the science labs wonder (the internet?).

	04-10-2003 16:41									#11
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quote: Dou you get cultural points in every city? As with the science labs wonder (the internet?).

I believe so.

	04-10-2003 23:30									#12
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Hopefully, you can still build a real temple with possesion of this Temple of Artemis, so that some cities still has a temple when the Temple of Artemis expires.

	05-10-2003 00:05									#13
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joncnunn, I don't think you can do this with the Internet or with Sun Tzu's, so I don't think you can do it with the TOA.

	05-10-2003 00:20									#14
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You would probably just have had to build the temple BEFORE you get TOA (and then not sell it for the maintenance savings).

	08-10-2003 23:53									#15
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It's not the happiness that would be the drawback to the ToA's obsolescense, it is the fact that all of those unbuilt temples won't be getting their 'doubling every thousand year' culture bonuses.

I don't think it's too strong at all. I doubt that I'll ever build it, for the above reason.

	09-10-2003 05:47									#16
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Using the luxury slider for a few turns while building temples or poprushing hem or building workers isn't the end of the world. It sounds like TTOA is as important for victory points as its other benefits in the Epic Scenario. Losing the 1000 year bonus in the other scenarios is a big deal too.

	16-10-2003 00:50									#17
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By the Temple of Artemis going obsolete I don't think the temples built from it go obsolete or disappear. I think it means that there will not be anymore temples built from the Temple of Artemis. So every temple that is built from the Temple of Artemis will be the samething throughout the game as building a temple regularly. In this case the Temple of Artemis is a really strong wonder, but if it weren't like this it would be very weak.



Woohoo my first post who knows how long...

	16-10-2003 01:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins By the Temple of Artemis going obsolete I don't think the temples built from it go obsolete or disappear. ....

But I don't think the temples are actually "built", it just functions as if there were a temple in every city.

It's like the Hoover Dam. If you capture it from another Civ, they lose the benefit of a hydro plant in every city, and you gain that benefit. So I'm pretty certain the temples will be gone.

quote: Woohoo my first post who knows how long...

8 1/2 months. Welcome back.

	16-10-2003 03:42									#19
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That could be how it is, Stuie, but I think it will build the temples just like how the pyramids builds granaries. Then once the Temple of Aremis goes obsolete it won't build anymore temples, but the old temples will still function. Won't really know which way until the game comes out.

And thanks for the welcoming back.

	16-10-2003 04:32									#20
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins That could be how it is, Stuie, but I think it will build the temples just like how the pyramids builds granaries. Then once the Temple of Aremis goes obsolete it won't build anymore temples, but the old temples will still function. Won't really know which way until the game comes out. And thanks for the welcoming back.

No that's not how it works. As soon as the Wonder becomes obsolete the Temples disappear. Only the ones that were built without it will remain. I believe there's already a wonder that works that way, though I can't quite remember what it is. At any rate, I've played with that flag in my mod and that's what happens.

	16-10-2003 05:37									#21
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins That could be how it is, Stuie, but I think it will build the temples just like how the pyramids builds granaries. Then once the Temple of Aremis goes obsolete it won't build anymore temples, but the old temples will still function.

But remember, on the same line of thought, If you loose the city that has the Great Pyramid, you loose all of those free granaries...So I too believe that once the Temple of Aremis goes obsolete, you will also loose all of those free temples.

Oh, and yes, welcome back Tech! Long-time-no-see.

	16-10-2003 07:22									#22
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Wittlich and Willem, what you two and pratically everyone else seems like what the wonder would be like based off of everything else, but I still don't think it will be like that. All of you are probably right, and I'm probably moreless just hoping that it's the way I think it might be. It seems kind of useless to me if it's the way all of you are explaining. By the time you get done building the wonder you are only going to have temples in a few cities for not that many turns. Then again if it's the way I'm hoping it is then the wonder might be too strong. Eh, either way works I guess.


Yeah, it has been a long time since I've been on these boards. Nice to be back civin.

	16-10-2003 21:21									#23
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Wittlich and Willem, what you two and pratically everyone else seems like what the wonder would be like based off of everything else, but I still don't think it will be like that.

Almost certainly it will be using the existing flag that builds a structure in every city, like the Sun Tzu now does with Barracks. I don't see why they would add someting new when they already have something in place.

quote: It seems kind of useless to me if it's the way all of you are explaining. By the time you get done building the wonder you are only going to have temples in a few cities for not that many turns.

Yes, but that would give you a big boost as far as your cultural boundaries are concerned. Even if the Temple only lasts for a short while, you'll gain alot of territory quickly if every city in your empire suddenly sprouts a Temple. If you were to go on an expansionist spree while you still have the wonder functioning, you'd have control over a fair amount of land in no time. After all, cultural boundaries never shrink, so you'd still have that benefit long after the wonder becomes obsolete.

	18-10-2003 22:29									#24
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So far, the other Wonders in Civ III that replace structures never go obsolete. There's no reason that they couldn't allow construction of temples while in possesion of the Temple of Artemis like in Civ's IIs City Walls while in possesion of the Great Wall.

	18-10-2003 22:46									#25
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn So far, the other Wonders in Civ III that replace structures never go obsolete.

Try modding one to go obsolete and see what happens

	19-10-2003 00:32									#26
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That is not a bad suggestion...

	19-10-2003 12:06									#27
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what are you waiting for, then?

	19-10-2003 15:07									#28
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I just tried.
Just when the Pyramids got obsolete, I lost all my free granaries.

	20-10-2003 17:05									#29
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Exactly.

And may I remind you, that the Artemis may be quite expensive wonder...

	22-10-2003 04:29									#30
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By any chance did you try building a Granary after building the Pyramids but before they went obsolete?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I just tried. Just when the Pyramids got obsolete, I lost all my free granaries.