03-10-2003 21:58									#1
	My thoughts on granaries Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thoughts on granaries

	04-10-2003 00:58									#2
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That's good number crunching. Granaries cost some wealth which is more valuable than timber in the early stages. Especially if you go early Classical. Though Romans/Incas manage it very nicely. And Herbal Lore is a sweet upgrade for those early attacks.

I'm still amused by the guy at RoNH who said "YOU DONT NEED GRANARIES, JUST MORE FARMS/VILLIES, NOT THAT HARD". No, it was't apollyon.

	04-10-2003 02:47									#3
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A good post, O4B. I now remember that my general way of playing seemed to be getting 5 farms immediately on getting a new cities, till I have 20 farms...

	04-10-2003 08:18									#4
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LOL. Yea 20 farms would be a bit much ... unless you had global prosperity!

	04-10-2003 08:20									#5
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quote: Granaries cost some wealth which is more valuable than timber in the early stages

Yea, but it's only 10w. Which is = to about ~12-13t/f/m if you sell it at market.

	04-10-2003 10:40									#6
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Yes you might adjust according to strategy. Early classical and early raiding has high wealth demands. Also consider any wealth rares. In some cases it might be better to build 1-2 more farms rather than granaries, especially on a timber heavy map like rainforest or old world.

There is also the issue of longer build time for granary, you are losing a small amount of food compared to farm construction. Not a huge savings in either case, but something to consider.

	04-10-2003 11:04									#7
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Yea granary takes 42 sec vs. 15 for a farm. What I normally do (now) is build 10 farms and then make the 2 granaries. Then drop a third city (unless early third is tactically required). That gets me to +150. The first upgrade then gets me to +180.

	04-10-2003 12:32									#8
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Sounds good, what civ are doing this with? I presume a non bonus civ for testing, but which do you use for regular games? I play germans and romans alot, and they can both pull a few tricks with their early game resource bonuses. Germans can do almost anything, and the Roman +15wealth per city opens up all sorts of early game possibilities. An easy Colossus for one.

	04-10-2003 14:29									#9
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I almost never build any granaries ecept in my capital because usually my commerce doesn't cover all the extra food.

	04-10-2003 20:04									#10
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Then you are building too many farms. Research SCI before COM and build the granaries as you tech up in commerce.

	04-10-2003 23:16									#11
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why should I? farms are cheaper than granaries, and what extra gain do granaries get me?

	05-10-2003 08:56									#12
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A farm by itself might be cheaper than a granary, but you also have to consider the cost of the villager who's doing the farming. Each farm costs 5 more food/wood than the previous one, so the seventh farm costs more than the first granary.

But really, you're free to do what you want.

	05-10-2003 09:18									#13
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Etch did you read his article? It's simple math, each farm costs more than the last, so at a certain point its much cheaper to build a granary or two instead of more farms. And the Agriculture line of research is absolutely essential, one-time research gives large gains to all cities with granaries. Otherwise you will be building dozens of _very_ costly farms and villagers, which also leaves you with less room under the pop cap.

	17-10-2003 14:41									#14
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well personaly it really depends on the circumstances eg: what map , amount of wood , oppenent civ , my civ.

think about what you would do with japanese with nice amount of wood? more farms or a granary or two?

	18-10-2003 05:38									#15
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More granaries silly. +20% +20% is a lotta food!

	18-10-2003 05:54									#16
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20% is 10 food in a city of five farms, that's the same as a new farm. On the other hand, Egyptian farms produce 10 food + 2 wealth, and Japanese farms produce more than 10 food. Egypt starts with a granary and can build seven farms there, so the second granary is not as high a priority. These are exceptions to the data.

	18-10-2003 08:31									#17
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Japs get +12 per farm. You get +14 with a granary. ON the other hand, Jap farms are cheaper, but they still require villagers, which are not. Also, you're gonna want to have granaries there to get the juicy bonuses for later anyway. Maybe you don't make them as quickly, but you still make them.

	18-10-2003 09:38									#18
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True. There is also the bonus to fishing that granary upgrades provide. I dont know the numbers off hand tho.

	18-10-2003 12:07									#19
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well ofcourse, i always build a granary for them great upgrades , but i am thinking when in the game . would the third city be when you should stick them in?

	02-12-2003 03:18									#20
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I don't know, I build one granary, but the second is a lot more expensive so they're hardly worth it...