03-10-2003 23:22									#1
	Does clearing terrain cause resources to dry up sooner? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I'd like to know the answer...

I know that it is possible to clear terrain that has a terrain-specific resource on it (e.g. coal, rubber, etc.), and retain the resource even though it no longer matches the cleared terrain. For example, clearing jungle that has rubber in it will retain the rubber even though the terrain turns into grassland, which is not compatible with rubber.
I also understand that resources can 'dry up' and disappear according to some arcane probablility formula.

My question is: If you end up with a resource sitting on an incompatible cleared terrain type (e.g. rubber on grassland), does the probability of the resource disappearing increase?

Thanks in advance for your informed responses.
- bvc

	03-10-2003 23:35									#2
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No, clearing the terrain has no effect on disappearance probabilities.

Resources are placed on permitted terrain as the map is generated. They are not placed when they are first "discovered". Resources will always RE-appear somewhere whenever they "disappear", sometimes even in the same location (UNLESS you have modded the game so that LUXURY resources disappear -- they just go "poof" and they are gone). Check the Resources tab in the Editor to see the disappearance factors, and use the Editor Help for explanations.

EDIT: typos

Last edited by Jaybe on 04-10-2003 at 01:28

	04-10-2003 00:46									#3
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quote: Resources will always RE-appear somewhere whenever the "disappear", sometimes even in the same location

Its an unlikely situation, but what if every jungle and forest square on the map had been chopped? Would my disappearing rubber simply reappear in the same spot?

	04-10-2003 01:26									#4
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Resources also RE-appear based on how the map was generated, not on its present state.

I "Believe" (based on observation) that when the map is generated, particular locations are selected to be resource locations, and resources will appear and "move to" only those locations. There are probably more "locations" than total resources, and I am including bonus resources, etc.

	04-10-2003 02:34									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Jaybe is correct, clearing the tile will not affect a resource from occurring there. The tile will be treated as if it were still a jungle for the purposes of placing the rubber.
It seems to me that the expiring of resources as been toned down quite a bit. I do not see as much as I recalled in the pre 1.29f or PTW days.

	04-10-2003 03:47									#6
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Well for one thing, Rubber doesn't disappear.

	04-10-2003 04:09									#7
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Theres always one smart ass

	04-10-2003 04:38									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well for one thing, Rubber doesn't disappear.

Good point and neither do horses, but that is not what they really wanted to know.

	04-10-2003 05:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Theres always one smart ass

But Willem does make a valid point.

	04-10-2003 14:35									#10
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Too bad uranium always disappears so quickly

	04-10-2003 22:21									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Theres always one smart ass

Well the point I was sort of making was that with most resources, there's more than one terrain type where they can disappear. So if Jungles and Forests are cut down, there'll still be places where they can reappear. Rubber is the exception since those are the only terrain types that it can show up in. Which is perhaps why they made it so it doesn't disappear. That's my guess anyway.

	04-10-2003 22:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Resources will always RE-appear somewhere whenever they "disappear"

Not true. Even ignoring the extreme case of all forest/jungle being gone, if there is a small number of free tiles for the resource to go, it won't always reappear.

	04-10-2003 23:10									#13
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Ooh I didn't know that horses could not disappear

	04-10-2003 23:21									#14
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Which else resources cannot disappear, anyone?

	05-10-2003 02:57									#15
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Sorry Willem, it must just be a local saying. Its always funny when someone blow your idea out of the water with something so obvious you hadnt considered it

	05-10-2003 03:02									#16
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I think it was just the wording he was upset about

	05-10-2003 03:16									#17
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Thanks everyone for your contributions to my Civ3 education relating to the vast array of undocumented game details. I also expect that the benefits of your posts extend to many others who may be wondering whether clearing that forest or jungle is such a good idea...
Cheers, bvc

	05-10-2003 03:18									#18
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not a problem

	06-10-2003 21:22									#19
	Re: Thanks all! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by bvoncranium I also expect that the benefits of your posts extend to many others who may be wondering whether clearing that forest or jungle is such a good idea... Cheers, bvc

Believe me, it's not the first time that question has come up.

	06-10-2003 21:24									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I think it was just the wording he was upset about

Who's upset? I did notice the winking smilie. Not everyone around here is oblivious to sarcasm.

	02-11-2003 01:45									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Resources are placed on permitted terrain as the map is generated. They are not placed when they are first "discovered".

When I first read this one subtlety that I failed to appreciate is that a resource could appear to you on the 'wrong terrain'.
If everything stated above is correct, then the following hypothetical example might occur:
* When the map is generated, a specific forest tile has uranium assigned to it;
* Early in the game the forest is cleared, revealing grassland;
* Upon the acquisition of Fission, the uranium becomes visible; surprisingly it appears on the grassland (!)

It would seem that this could happen with any resource that appears in forest or jungle, but not in grassland or plains:
coal, rubber, uranium, furs, dyes, spices, silks, and gems.

I've never seen the appearance of resources on the 'wrong terrain'; has anyone else?

- bvc

	02-11-2003 01:51									#22
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It happens and I've seen it. However, I don't have any screenshot, so you'll have to believe me without any proof.

	02-11-2003 03:26									#23
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Yes that does happen and it was meant to be allowed. You are free to work any tile without regard to its impact on any resource appearing. A at map gen all are predeterimed as was stated. If you get any sudden appearence during teh game, the tiles are treated as they were first generated to met any requirements.

Since PTW after the second patch, I have not seen a great deal of resource depletion/replacemnt anyway.

	02-11-2003 04:21									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

One notable exception is the Iron resource. At least for me, there were a surprising number of times that the resource was gone - of course, Murphy's Law always applied, and that happened always when I was on a medieval war against some multiple opponents.