05-10-2003 04:53									#1
	EU2 Question - Techs Increase Your PM Length

OK so I'm England and at about 1464 and in control of most of northern France and have vassalized Scotland (I'll deal with them fully later). I'm doing a reasonable job of staying out of European entanglements and building up my navy by being diplomatic.

But....

everyone else has Land tech 3 (some have naval tech 3 too) and I'm not on track to get it for another 10-15 years or so.

I have had some bad luck with stability problems in recent decades and am in the middle of the WOTR (Henry VI has died thank ***), but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference (at +3 now) to the time to tech 3.

What have I done? I'm wondering if inflation has wrecked my chances. I had a lot of bad events and it is up at about 12% right now. I am hoping for some exceptional years to get it down again, but nothing so far.

Scuse if I sound too much of a n00b. I have had the game for quite a while but have been too busy to play it past the first 50 years or so.

	05-10-2003 05:24									#2
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If it's gonna take you that long to get to Mil3 when other folks already have it, it sounds to me like you're simply not investing anything IN the military branch of the tech tree.

Not that I blame you....the tech difference won't be compelling til the baddies have Mil 11, and then, only assuming you still haven't reached Mil6 yet. If that is the case, you're in a fair bit of trouble, but for the moment, a even a 3-4 tech difference shouldn't give you much trouble (if you have much of France under your belt, manpower is NOT a concern of yours, and although your armies won't be able to go head to head with those of your enemies without overwhelming numbers on your side, you'll HAVE those overwhelming numbers, and this will more than compensate for the inferior tech (just don't put yourself in the position of your enemies having two CRT's on you...OUCH).

For the time being, I'd focus on Infrastructure till you get Infra 5, and then switch to full military research to catch up with your neighbors, and after that, pour it all into trade.

The thinking goes like this:

Infra 5 = Mayors. Mayors = Inflation reduction. Promote your mayors, inflation drops AS you're researching those military techs, and you get to "double dip" as it were, getting a hefty "neighbor bonus" (free research points), plus increasingly lower aggregate tech costs as your inflation drops. That should put you on par with your neighbors pretty quickly, and as soon as you're in the ballpark, stop researching military stuff and bulk up your trade. Late game, trade produces more income than the rest combined....

-=Vel=-

	05-10-2003 06:21									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

OK thanks. I was investing in it. But even if I slid it all the way up it doesn't seem to make much difference. The same goes for all the techs.

I did invest heavily in stability since I was taking a real beating from random events and was at war.

I do think, however, that the WOTR would have been better if England splintered into Yorkist and Lancastrian provinces, and you had to choose one - I suppose it would be historically inaccurate then as you would need to play both sides in sequence to continue.

Having the Earl of Warwick (an historical fave of mine) is a bonus though.

	05-10-2003 08:45									#4
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Hmmmm...couple of things to check then:

1) Check your current army size against your max supportable number of troops. If your monthly economy isn't contributing significantly to your tech discovery rate, there's a reason for it, and if you have way more troops than you can "normally" support, your troop costs per month will skyrocket, crippling your economy.

2) Make sure you're running at 50% troop and fleet maintenance during times of peace. This alone will cut your troops costs by half, per month, freeing up more coin toward research

3) At this stage in the game, check your production effie and spike it (centralize!). The higher the percentage, the better for you, plus centralization will help offset the inflationary price of your techs

4) if you're already max centralized, then adjust your innovative slider to the dead center (no tech penalty or bonus)....as England, you don't wanna go Innovative, cos you'll cut down your number of colonists, but it's early enough in the game that right now, you have no particular NEED for colonists, so centering the value, and running max centralized will give you a net -10% tech cost, which will almost entirely offset the increase brought on by your current inflation levels.

5) If you haven't done so already, promote bailiffs to tax collectors in every province you own...grows your economy bigger, which equals more ducats per month toward research.



-=Vel=-

	05-10-2003 22:53									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Hmmmm...couple of things to check then: 1) Check your current army size against your max supportable number of troops. If your monthly economy isn't contributing significantly to your tech discovery rate, there's a reason for it, and if you have way more troops than you can "normally" support, your troop costs per month will skyrocket, crippling your economy. 2) Make sure you're running at 50% troop and fleet maintenance during times of peace. This alone will cut your troops costs by half, per month, freeing up more coin toward research 3) At this stage in the game, check your production effie and spike it (centralize!). The higher the percentage, the better for you, plus centralization will help offset the inflationary price of your techs 4) if you're already max centralized, then adjust your innovative slider to the dead center (no tech penalty or bonus)....as England, you don't wanna go Innovative, cos you'll cut down your number of colonists, but it's early enough in the game that right now, you have no particular NEED for colonists, so centering the value, and running max centralized will give you a net -10% tech cost, which will almost entirely offset the increase brought on by your current inflation levels. 5) If you haven't done so already, promote bailiffs to tax collectors in every province you own...grows your economy bigger, which equals more ducats per month toward research. -=Vel=-

Thanks again. I had been doing all of that apart from the Centralization. I'm pretty sure my slow progress is down to the terrible troubles with stability I've had.

	14-10-2003 10:05									#6
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Early on, when incomes are rather limited, the Monarchs military skill makes a relatively large difference to the tech research rate.
From memory England has a few lemon-headed rulers in those years so its not too surprising that you're behind at this stage - particularly with lousy events.
In any case, unless you get into a real furball of a scrap though your early leaders should be able to offset the small tech difference. That and try and pick good defensive terrain to fight on.

As far as the Innovation slider goes though I might venture to disagree (although only very slightly) with the almighty. - you might want to at least consider pushing it up a notch or two as the small loss in # of colonists will probably be made up by going naval a little later (not to mention the +1 extra for the wharf). Reducing research costs by 10-15% early on can make a big big difference especially for infra/trade.

	15-10-2003 02:38									#7
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Yeah, after Henry V dies you end up with Henry VI who is easily England's most useless king ever.

Currently I'm with Edward IV who is slightly better. You do get really excellent leaders for the WOTR - Richard Duke of York; the Earl of Warwick being notable.

Last edited by Agathon on 15-10-2003 at 02:48

	15-10-2003 02:51									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Anyway, here's the current situation. This is really the first game I've played to any great length, mainly because I haven't had the time to devote to it. I haven't touched this for a couple of weeks.

Anyway, Scotland is a vassal and I have most of Northern France. No one else seems that belligerent right now and I am being a nice guy until the WOTR ends. Stability has been a real problem.

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	15-10-2003 02:52									#9
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Here's the military situation. I could really go on a rampage if I didn't have to keep a huge mob in England to sort out revolts.

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	15-10-2003 02:53									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And here's the sliders. Any advice?

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	15-10-2003 06:40									#11
	Put an end to popups!

OH man! You're set for life! If it was me, I'd knock Innovate +1 for your next slider move, to offset your inflationary tech costs (and possibly the slider move after that, on the thinking that as England, you'll get some good events that dramatically improve centralization for you). Once you're happy there, go to work on Arist, slamming that puppy all the way to Plut over time.

Any opportunity you can get or engineer to make war on France and her allies, do so, and scarf up some more french cultured provinces. France has some of the best real estate in Europe, and you can coast to victory once you snuff the dream of an independent France out and put them under the English banner.

IMO, too many guys on the island tho, especially with the Scots as vassals. I'd prolly stick 8-10k cav there to cover any rebellions you might have and toss the rest onto the continent to press your claims...

-=Vel=-

	16-10-2003 00:48									#12
	Got spare money?

Thanks - that's good news. I've been bad with the sliders since I kept getting massive stability whacks from random events.

Since the WOTR is still in full swing 8-10 cav is not really enough to quash the rebellions I've been getting. Having said that, since I struggled back to +3 it hasn't been so bad.

I'm waiting until the WOTR finishes until I make a really big move against France. As it stands, they can't hurt me and I've made enough local friends to prevent them getting really nasty. One thing I don't want is Castile/Aragon getting nasty because they feel threatened by me. The only other game I played much went to about 1440 and I controlled most of France. Unfortunately, everyone else ganged up on me and events meant that I had a hard time controlling rebellions and fighting back.

Scotland are on borrowed time. I vassalized them to save me the trouble of the Auld Alliance and it's worked so far. I plan to smash them at leisure after I've dealt with our frog-eating friends.

	18-10-2003 06:20									#13
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OK - dead on about the events leading to greater centralization.

Things worked out quite well. I decided to ally with Lorraine, who then got me into the war I wanted. I smashed most of France and then took the stability hit for an unprovoked invasion of Brittany (which had taken some of the other French territories).

Things are good in England, with the end of the WOTR and I now have only two worries - Aragon and Austria. Time to upgrade forts I think, before I start thinking about finishing off the French for good.

So far I have not had to annex anyone.

Here's the situation.

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	18-10-2003 17:45									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'd say you shouldn't worry too much of Aragon as Austria(), but it would be wise to conquer Aragon before taking Austria. More land = more power = better chances to take Austria, AND cripple Spain in the same move!

As for sliders, I'd more towards serfdom to make stab easier to recover(you know, multi-cultural empire and such), and a more centralized government.

	21-12-2003 03:38									#15
	Put an end to popups!

The war continues. It's now 1602.

Europe has basically been extremely quiet so I have concentrated on colonization and attempting to monopolize the North American market.

Massive stability hits in the last 15 years have meant that I couldn't be as aggressive as I wished, but I've still done OK.

Here's Europe.

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	21-12-2003 03:39									#16
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And here's the North American colonies. I haven't had the opportunity to wipe out the other natives since I have had stability problems, but that's the next piece of fun.

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	21-12-2003 03:40									#17
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Here's Africa. These are just bases for naval exploration. I have a couple in S America too.

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	21-12-2003 03:42									#18
	Put an end to popups!

And here's the latest theatre of English operations. I have colonized Jakarta and am only two colonists away from making it a city. Once I've done that I'm going to spew out troops to kill natives and colonize all the spice islands.

I've even discovered New Zealand.

Any advice?

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