06-10-2003 15:32									#1
	Afghan women face 'daily danger' Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3166566.stm

Afghan women face 'daily danger'

By Crispin Thorold
BBC, Kabul


The plight of Afghan women has improved little since the fall of the Taleban, according to the human rights organisation Amnesty International.
There have been big changes for some women since the fall of the fundamentalist Taleban regime nearly two years ago - thousands of girls are now attending school and many women have returned to work.

But according to Amnesty International, most women are not being protected.


A draft constitution is expected to enshrine equal rights for both sexes
It says the risk of rape is very high, and girls as young as eight are being forced into marriage.

Women are not protected by the criminal justice system, the report says.

During the war against the Taleban, world leaders said the conflict would liberate Afghanistan's women, yet many today are as oppressed as ever.

Amnesty International's report comes days before the release of a draft constitution which activists hope will transform the way women are treated in this devoutly Islamic state.

But even if new laws are ratified by the mainly male constitutional loya jirga that will consider the document, there is some doubt the measures will be enforced.

Much of Afghanistan is lawless and President Hamid Karzai's administration has little control outside the capital, Kabul.

	06-10-2003 15:57									#2
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quiet you. it's just media spin to make bush look bad. conditions in afghanistan are better than ever before.

	06-10-2003 17:24									#3
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Interesting story . . .

but of course, the Bushphiles will just say that all this information is part of some vast left-wing conspiracy.

	06-10-2003 17:32									#4
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hush, you left-wing commie. do you want to get thrown from a helicopter?

	06-10-2003 17:56									#5
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Those who thought that the afghan society would change over night are rather naive ...

The same is true for Iraq. It takes a long-long time to change people's mentality.

	06-10-2003 18:58									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius It takes a long-long time to change people's mentality.

Yep, and some, like Saint Marcus, are just hopeless.

	07-10-2003 02:06									#7
	Re: Afghan women face 'daily danger' Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus A draft constitution is expected to enshrine equal rights for both sexes.

Do they learn nothing from history? This is exactly what started the uprising that brought in the Soviets twenty-four years ago.

	07-10-2003 03:47									#8
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Che & Tiberius are right. The mistreatment and abuse of women is enshrined in the Afghan culture and it will take generations of reeducation to eliminate this barbarism.

	07-10-2003 21:26									#9
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quote: Those who thought that the afghan society would change over night are rather naive ...

Not over night.

But it's been 2 years and billions upon billions of dollars later. We should be seeing some results by now, shouldn't we?

	07-10-2003 21:50									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Not over night. But it's been 2 years and billions upon billions of dollars later. We should be seeing some results by now, shouldn't we?

The thing is most of those efforts have been directed at fighting the terrorist still there. Also I lot of the money has been used to rebuild the country. Just throwing money at the problem does not make it better. This has more to do with people's minds, and you have to changet attitudes to make things better. No amount of money can change minds.

	07-10-2003 21:58									#11
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We haven't been trying to change minds. We've been helping to prop up the rule of often-Islamist warlords.

	07-10-2003 22:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Do they learn nothing from history? This is exactly what started the uprising that brought in the Soviets twenty-four years ago.

thats the standard line from the apologists for the communist regime in afghanistan - the rebellion was NOT a nationalist rising, not a result of general disatisfaction with the communists, but was "a group of farmers who didnt want their daughters educated"

Well, guevera, even those who claim the above suggest the rebellion of the benighted farmers wouldnt have gotten anywhere without US support. Since there is no equivalent source of such support, the situation today is likely to be different. In fact there has been growth in education of Afghan women, and even female participation in the cabinet - and yet no rebellion outside of the Pashtun southeast.

This seems like an attempt to enlist half of the country (IE the females) in support of the new order - most who will oppose it are ALREADY opposed. Seems like a good idea to me.

	07-10-2003 22:24									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Not over night. But it's been 2 years and billions upon billions of dollars later. We should be seeing some results by now, shouldn't we?

Building stability in Paktia province

	07-10-2003 22:31									#14
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark thats the standard line from the apologists for the communist regime in afghanistan - the rebellion was NOT a nationalist rising, not a result of general disatisfaction with the communists, but was "a group of farmers who didnt want their daughters educated"

It's also historically the case. However, my post was meant to be ironic. It took them 25 years of bloodshed to get back to the point where they were in 1979.

Maybe they can have roads and hospitals and schools again soon? So much death and pain and misery to get someplace they've already been.

	07-10-2003 23:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's also historically the case. However, my post was meant to be ironic. It took them 25 years of bloodshed to get back to the point where they were in 1979. Maybe they can have roads and hospitals and schools again soon? So much death and pain and misery to get someplace they've already been.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to discuss the situation in Afghanistan in 1979 now. I am keeping to the topic of this thread, which is prospects for Afghanistan now.

Here is more on Afghanistan today.

Reconstruction and change in Kabul

	07-10-2003 23:43									#16
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yes, in Kabul.

But what about the rest of the country?

	08-10-2003 00:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus yes, in Kabul. But what about the rest of the country?

"We should be seeing some results by now, shouldn't we?"

Some means some - if we are only seeing results in Kabul that is still some. However in this thread I have posted a link about Paktia Province - did you bother to follow it.

In another thread a couple of months ago i posted information on progress in Bamiyan province. (and was told, IIRC, how atypical the Hazaras of that area are)

In another thread I posted information about progress in Kandahar (and was told that it was not a good indication of progress, since it was a city and most of the population is rural)

I cannot and will not repeat every post i have ever made on Afghan progress.

Nor do i think i need to show progress on every issue, in every province of the country to show that there has been progress.

Lets turn it around - YOU show the issues where you think there is inadequate progress, and the places where this is happening.

As for the status of women, there has clearly been major progress in Kabul, some progress in smaller cities, and relatively little progress in the rural areas. Given how LITTLE in terms of resources the coalition has put into the country, and how deep a part of the culture this is, this is pretty decent progress. Its the job of AI of course to push for more.

	08-10-2003 00:20									#18
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Sheeeesh, and I though we had a magic wand that could resotre or inflate economies with the flick of a wrist...

Same sheit going on in Iraq with everyone going why isn't it fixed yet? What are you doing? Where's their government? Whine, whine, whine... AND THE FIGHTING ISN'T EVEN OVER YET!!!!

Blah, you all disgust me...

Well, not all, just those who expect immediate results when the solutions take time...

Speaking of which... Why is Poly still all messed up! It's been a whole day!