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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Bush Shoots Self in Foot . . . Again Put an end to popups!

Turkish parliament OKs troops for Iraq

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Suzan Fraser

Oct. 7, 2003 | ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's parliament voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to give the government permission to send troops to Iraq, a move that could lead to the first contingent of Muslim peacekeepers being sent to Iraq.

But the Iraqi Governing Council, set up by the United States, underlined its opposition to any Turkish troops -- reflecting many Iraqis' fears that its neighbor to the north is sending troops to grab territory or dominate Iraq. (emphasis added - chegitz)

Turkey's prime minister has pressed hard for parliament approval for the deployment, which will help patch up damaged ties with Washington and give Turkey a say in ruling Iraq.

Turkish lawmakers voted 358-183 in a closed-door session in favor of dispatching troops. The motion gives the government the authority to send troops for a year, but does not specify how many troops would be deployed or when. Washington has asked Turkey to contribute some 10,000 soldiers.

The vote does not mean that soldiers will immediately be dispatched. The government is still negotiating the terms of deployment with the United States, which could take weeks or even longer.

Parliament's vote was a victory for the Turkish government, which had sought to avoid a repeat of the debacle before the Iraq war. In March, after months of talks with Washington, the government asked Parliament to let U.S. troops deploy in Turkey for use in the Iraq war. That motion failed by just four votes despite the government's huge majority in parliament, sparking tensions with the United States.

Turkish officials have said their country could send 5,000 to 10,000 soldiers and that the troops would largely be based in the Sunni Muslim section of central Iraq that has been a hotbed of anti-American violence. Turks are overwhelmingly Sunnis.

The United States has made a worldwide call for money and troops to help rebuild Iraq. Washington hopes that having a Muslim nation in its coalition in Iraq will ease opposition to the U.S.-led occupation.

But Turkey would come to Iraq with a lot of historical baggage.

The Turkish Ottoman Empire ruled today's Iraq for about 400 years until World War I. For the past 15 years, Turkey has been fighting Turkish Kurdish separatists who have bases among their Kurdish brethern in northern Iraq.

Iraq's 15-member Governing Council met Tuesday to debate the prospect of a Turkish deployment "and after long deliberations we reached consensus on issuing a statement opposing the arrival Turkish troops," said councilmember Mahmoud Othman, a Kurd.

He said issuance of the statement was delayed, he believed, because of pressure from the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority.

"We believe any interference from a neighboring country, either north, south, west or east, is unacceptable. This interference is unacceptable. This interference will jeopardize Iraq and that country," said Mouwafak Al-Rabii, a Shiite councilmember and longtime human rights activist.

Turkey, meanwhile, is demanding that the United States help Turkey crack down against Turkish Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq and has made that support a virtual condition to the deployment of peacekeepers.

A U.S. counterterrorism delegation met with Turkish officials last week and came to an agreement on countering the rebels that could include military force. Parliamentary approval of the deployment could strengthen Turkey's hand in negotiations with Washington.

Just before the vote, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan met with lawmakers from his ruling Justice and Development Party to rally support for dispatching troops. The public is strongly opposed to sending soldiers.

Government officials have been emphasizing that Turkey needs to have a say in Iraq and instability in Iraq could affect Turkey in the future.

Turkey is also worried that Kurds in northern Iraq are gaining influence and could in the future break away from Iraq and form a separate state. Turkey fears that that could influence Turkish Kurds. Some 37,000 people have been killed in Ankara's 15-year war with Kurdish separatists in southeastern Turkey.

The United States agreed to lend Turkey $8.5 billion to support its economy, but has made clear that the loan hinges on Turkey's "cooperation in Iraq."

A majority of Turks opposed the Iraq war and are against sending peacekeepers to Iraq.

"It is unacceptable that our children's lives will be put into danger for the United States' dirty interests," said Suleyman Celebi, the head of the Confederation of Revolutionary Workers' Unions. The union has some 300,000 members.

To help deflect opposition, Turkey's government has been trying to distance itself from the unpopular occupation of Iraq.

"Those who go there must go there to help bring peace to Iraq," Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said. "Turkey will definitely not be part of the occupation."

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:35 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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I predicted this would eventually happen.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:36
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There's bound to be disagreement amoung the council over any foreign troop be deployed to Iraq. After all some of the council members want to set up an Islamic state and they believe instability in the current Iraq is the best way to achieve that.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:40
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Che, you think this is a bad thing?

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:50 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Seeings as how we'd be seriously pissing off the folks who are most loyal to us right now (the Kurds), absolutely.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 21:56 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack_www
Che, you think this is a bad thing?


I think it's an extremely bad idea to have the Turks in Iraq, even if they aren't to be stationed in Kurdish areas. They aren't exactly popular in the rest of Iraq either. I suspect they will be a target of violence and become a focus for anti-occupation groups to organize and broaden.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Seeings as how we'd be seriously pissing off the folks who are most loyal to us right now (the Kurds), absolutely.


If they are put in areas away from the Kurds I think this would be very good thing.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 22:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack_www
If they are put in areas away from the Kurds I think this would be very good thing.


They aren't going o be stationed in Kurdish areas. Doesn't matter. The Arabs hate the Turks also.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 22:03
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Given the long memories that are prevelent in the ME, and the history of the Ottoman empire, the popular perception of the Turks is going to be pretty damn low, even in areas where the locals are friendly to the US.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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The Arabs hate the US & UK but we're there. I suspect they'll get over hating the Turks or will at least resign themselves into putting up with them.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 22:06 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Neither the nationalist Sunnis nor the Shias have any love for the Turks either.

But the point is, the Kurds will not be happy even if the Turks aren't deployed in the North. Hell, as the article mentioned the agreement is that we'll help the Turks crush their Kurds in return.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
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  Old Post 07-10-2003 22:12 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
The Arabs hate the US & UK but we're there. I suspect they'll get over hating the Turks or will at least resign themselves into putting up with them.


The Turks have a recent history of ethnic cleansing, and the Turks have a long history of imperialism in the region. I think the perception of the Turks would actually be worse than than the US/UK (as, likely, would the behavior of Turkish soldiers in contrast to their western counterparts).

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
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Mar 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 07-10-2003 23:54
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Got spare money?

So...where's this Iraqi puppet government I've been hearing about?

Snotty is offline Snotty
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Dec 2002
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Find me a cheaper army and youve found me a better army. And what else is available locally? Isreal?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 00:39 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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You used to be a lot more interesting, Che; before you got redundant.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 00:46 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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elijah cares not

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotty
Find me a cheaper army and youve found me a better army. And what else is available locally? Isreal?


Yeah, put in that bunch of racist vandals. That would really make for goof public relations.

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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Jul 1999
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 07:42 Visit Victor Galis's homepage!
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Hey, the Serbs are sending about 1,000 troops of their own.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 07:58
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This is great. If the Arabs really hate the Turks as much as you guys claim, they'll be too busy killing them to bother with the Caucasians anymore. Bush is a genius.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor Galis
Hey, the Serbs are sending about 1,000 troops of their own.


Great, more racist vandals.

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


Great, more racist vandals.


Yeah, the article that I read that in also mentioned the possibility that some of those Serbians will be veterans of the war in Bosnia.

I'm wondering why we didn't accept Rugova's offer of 500-1000 Kosovar policemen. Compared to the Serbs and Turks, they'd be almost good.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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Last night I saw the Iraqi Foreign Minister bing interviewed about this on BBC World, and he made two interesting points to add to the discussion:

1) Apparently, the Iraqi cabinet expressed their reluctance about Turkish troops to both Powell and Rumsfeld weeks ago. So this may be a surprise to us, but it's not a surprise to the administration.

2) He actually backed off his initial objection to the presence of Turkish tropps in Iraq, saying that the only problem is that the troops would have to be brought on through teh Kurdish north. The implication was that if they could get the troops in without going through Kurdish regions (i.e., by air or sea), the cabinet would no longer object.

From the perspectiv of someone sitting here in Ankara, I have to say that I hope they turn down the troops. That result is win-win for Turkey: they've curried favor with the US by voting to deploy, but they won't piss off the Turkish citizenry by actually deploying.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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Considering the huge tensions between the turkish government and the kurdish minority this is bound to end up as a misstake. At least from a humanitarian point of view. That doesn't mean that Bush shoot himself in the foot. After all, Bush is dealing with bigger issues than that, in his own mind.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


Great, more racist vandals.


Bigot.

dannubis is offline dannubis
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 16:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
The Arabs hate the US & UK but we're there. I suspect they'll get over hating the Turks or will at least resign themselves into putting up with them.


operation iraqi freedom right ?

problem_child is offline problem_child
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  Old Post 08-10-2003 18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
This is great. If the Arabs really hate the Turks as much as you guys claim, they'll be too busy killing them to bother with the Caucasians anymore. Bush is a genius.


Their sending in Chechyens, Tajiks and Azabeijaanis too!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
This is great. If the Arabs really hate the Turks as much as you guys claim, they'll be too busy killing them to bother with the Caucasians anymore. Bush is a genius.


Turks are Caucasians.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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From what I heard on NR this morning, they'll be deployed to the Sunni Triangle area. I guess they can't get any more hostile to us there.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
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Its been more than 20 years since I had any contact with the Turkish military, but I doubt they would be any good at peace-keeping (especially in Iraq). The officers are extremely arrogant and unwilling to negotiate. The troops, while (harshly) disciplined, are uneducated and poorly paid. All in all, good in war, crappy in peace.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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All this shows is how desperate the US is to get some foreign troop support into Iraq. They'll take anybody.

 
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