08-10-2003 05:06									#1
	What's the deal with the GoW bug? Support Apolyton

According to the "who has the save" thread, GoW has some sort of bug which is delaying the game.

All that they will say (understandably so IMHO, for now at least) is that it deals with movement.

I've never seen a bug with movement, at least with the latest several patches, so I'm can't even guess at it. Does anyone hear have any ideas, or sniffs as to the problem?


Since they won't let us help, my bet would be that it has something to do with them moving through ND territory via RoP, some glitch there.

I don't mind them not posting screenies, but I think they should at least post updates and status reports, to let us know someone is working on it.

Is Trip working on it?

Anyway, I hope it gets fixed soon....and I hope itts not a stall tactic.

	08-10-2003 05:17									#2
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Does it buy us time?

	08-10-2003 05:23									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Does it buy us time?

\

For what?


We can use the time to come up with a cohesive invasion plan. I'm not sure if we can do anything diplomatically with the other teams.

	08-10-2003 05:25									#4
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I'm working on it...

	08-10-2003 05:27									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I'm working on it...

Great to hear. : b:

	08-10-2003 10:41									#6
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May be it's the catapults-dont-move-twice-a-turn-although-they-should movement bug?

	08-10-2003 11:02									#7
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I have a hunch that their switching back and forth from war to peace is biting them in the ass.

	08-10-2003 16:30									#8
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Maybe they forgot to re-stablish the RoP after the cat-switching war, or couldn't this turn. I don't know how the MP mechanics works with deals to-and-fro.

NYE has a point too. Either ND or GoW had to declare war, and the aggressor gets a big WW hit. Whatever happens, they can't keep doing this and have already paid a price.

	08-10-2003 16:35									#9
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel For what? We can use the time to come up with a cohesive invasion plan.

Yes, precisely this - and communicating relevant battle plans with RP.

	08-10-2003 18:43									#10
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I think we should try to convince RP to withdraw the forces they have at Pamp 1. They need to keep damn near everything they have in Pamp!

Theseus has developed something resembling a plan in the Spartan Academy thread. I'm pretty much in agreement, though I need to re-read it when I'm more awake.

-Arrian

	08-10-2003 20:52									#11
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It ain't a plan yet by any means... broad strategy only, thus far.

We need a unit-by-unit, turn-by-turn plan (remember the old days? ) for both ourselves and RP.

AND it needs to be reviewed by multiple people, so we don't have further Alamo/Merida mistakes.

	08-10-2003 22:06									#12
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So it is a problem with RoP's, only getting them one way rather than bilateral.

IMHO, since the game can still be played and this is a minor glitch, they should just suck it up and move the game along, perhaps it would be fixed next turn.

I think NYE is right, its probably the result of temp wars or something.

	08-10-2003 22:15									#13
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel IMHO, since the game can still be played and this is a minor glitch, they should just suck it up and move the game along, perhaps it would be fixed next turn.

Only if you mean "minor" as in "having a major impact on the game."

And it won't be fixed next turn, or any other. The bug doesn't go away.

	08-10-2003 23:50									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Only if you mean "minor" as in "having a major impact on the game."

I consider what happened before to be major, I'm not sure about this, as we don't have the information. Before the game wasn't playable at all until some things were changed. If this is just that RoP isn't working, then the game is still functioning, albeit at a crippled state.

quote: Originally posted by Trip And it won't be fixed next turn, or any other. The bug doesn't go away.

That sucks. Does this affect us as well, for instance, would RP be able to move freely in our territory? Or is it something specific to ND-GoW and their past several turns.


Have you seen this bug before, I haven't heard of it.

Perhaps all teams could disable or not use their Rops for the next several turns (not necessariliy cancelling them, as might not be possible w/o war) by being careful. At least that way the game could proceed.

	09-10-2003 00:14									#15
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Can't the ROP be renegotiated at the start of each team's turn?

	09-10-2003 01:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus It ain't a plan yet by any means... broad strategy only, thus far. We need a unit-by-unit, turn-by-turn plan (remember the old days? ) for both ourselves and RP. AND it needs to be reviewed by multiple people, so we don't have further Alamo/Merida mistakes.

That's a shitload of work, and I have to say I'm daunted by it. Just the thought of all those unit orders... it makes me dizzy. I can deal with micromanagement when we've got a couple of cities and workers, but MM of a huge army such as we have is just overwhelming.

Regional commanders, perhaps? You North, me South (or vice-versa, whichever you want)? Then the task doesn't seem so big.

-Arrian

	09-10-2003 02:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I consider what happened before to be major, I'm not sure about this, as we don't have the information. Before the game wasn't playable at all until some things were changed. If this is just that RoP isn't working, then the game is still functioning, albeit at a crippled state.

I view this more as "having a major impact on the game" than "having a major impact on whether the game can be played at all." Neither one is acceptable.

quote: That sucks. Does this affect us as well, for instance, would RP be able to move freely in our territory? Or is it something specific to ND-GoW and their past several turns. Have you seen this bug before, I haven't heard of it.

I've never seen it before, but I'm talking with someone who has, and I believe knows how to fix it. If so, then we should be good again this evening.

It may very well crop up again, we haven't yet found the trigger conditions for what makes it occur.

quote: Perhaps all teams could disable or not use their Rops for the next several turns (not necessariliy cancelling them, as might not be possible w/o war) by being careful. At least that way the game could proceed.

Imagine finding out from, say, Vox that Alamo only has 1 unit in it and there are 15 GoW Riders just outside, but RP territory in the way. You could wipe out or cripple the stack, but the ROP bug prevents you. That's what I would call a major impact, and would be unacceptable to continue the game under such circumstances for any team.

	09-10-2003 02:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian That's a shitload of work, and I have to say I'm daunted by it. Just the thought of all those unit orders... it makes me dizzy. I can deal with micromanagement when we've got a couple of cities and workers, but MM of a huge army such as we have is just overwhelming.

Don't MM the whole army, split it in groups, and move those as one. It will make life a lot easier. e.g. you have 10 knights in the North, name them cavalry 1, and use that further on...

DeepO

	09-10-2003 02:56									#19
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Trip-

I understand your point. I would certainly be ticked off if we were suffering of it.

Hopefully it can be fixed.

but if it can't be fixed, then I hope the game would still proceed.

	09-10-2003 03:23									#20
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Perhaps something really big has happened this turn....

Should we brace ourselves for some bad news...

At a complete stab in the dark my money is on Alamo flipping to RP and GoW being unable to get forces back to retake it

	09-10-2003 04:32									#21
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quote: Originally posted by OPD At a complete stab in the dark my money is on Alamo flipping to RP and GoW being unable to get forces back to retake it

I wish.

	09-10-2003 05:36									#22
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Who was it that used to hate CF so much??

Wouldn't that burn his ass.

* Theseus places more M&Ms before the RND godz.

Arrian:

1) I am at an industry conference from this Friday afternoon through next Wednesday evening. I will prolly have limited time... I don;t think enough to be theatre commander in the south. The north should be OK, as I don;t think anything major (in terms of unit control) will take place for, hmmm, 3 turns. Even so, you (and others) may have to cover for me, especially Sun-Tues evenings.

2) You might want to think about cutting iron a bit more, although maybe you are right about waiting a touch. Perhaps when our big producers can finish some Knights? 4-5 turns? We actually don't have THAT many units to upgrade.

	09-10-2003 05:52									#23
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I'll say it, I miss Coracle

Funny how they fixed his major complaint and he didn't come back.

Maybe still peeved about the airlifting of elephants but not leaders...

	09-10-2003 18:12									#24
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I don't miss Coracle in the slightest, although I wouldn't notice if he came back since the has the dubious distinction of being the only person ever to go on my ignore list.

Re Alamo doing the culture flip. When does the flip actually occur. Since we are talking about a GoW-held town flipping to RP, would that occur at the start of GoW's turn, or at the start of RP's? I would suspect the latter (otgherwise you can lose a town and retake it before the other civ knows anything happened), although having never played PBEM I'm just guessing. But if that is the case, then it can't be a flip, or else we'd already know about it, since it would have had to have happened on RPs turn.

	09-10-2003 20:15									#25
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Someone mentions Coracle and within hours I suffer a nasty flip in the AUSG101 - losing 6 cats, 6 ansars and 3 pikes in Houston.

Memo to self : "Cities even five tiles from Pyramids/GLib capital are hard to hold..."

	09-10-2003 20:58									#26
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Hey, Marine+Berserk Armies don't work... and I'm still here!

	09-10-2003 21:09									#27
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The flip would probably have to happen at the start of RP's turn so that they could get the choice of either installing a govenor or rebuffing the rebels.

Unless I'm mistaken the bug relates to GoW troops moving through ND land w/o the rop effect, and has a significant impact on the game according to Trip.

At another stab in the dark I'm going to bet that ND have taken Pamp but with only minimal units left to defend it. They need the second wave of GoW riders to come to the south to guard Pamp and Alamo, but the rop isn't working....

Perhaps they move the riders adjacent to Pamp only to see their move points disapear once they declare war...

	09-10-2003 22:14									#28
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I dont' think you get the choice of rebuffing in MP.


My bet is that the GoW 2nd wave is just departing GoW territory and was trying to utilize the nd roads. Before, they traveled down the east coast neutral zone.

So IMHO, they've had to reveal quite a bit of information through this, that they've been rallying their troops up to this point and this turn was their first on the trip to the south.

Hmm.

	09-10-2003 22:57									#29
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BTW:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!
Ocatavian

	09-10-2003 23:03									#30
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Now I think that deserves its own thread.

Oh and happy birthday Octavian.


And +1 for the alva sighting in this forum..