08-10-2003 22:07									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Arnie takes office once the election is certified. First the counties have to certify, then the Sec. State. Counties have 25 days to certify. The whole process must be done in 39 days. Arnie's people are talking about taking power in two weeks. Gray Davis said he would leave office in "several weeks." Jesse Jackson, though, was talking "disenfranchisement" and "lawsuit." He may lead an effort to raise court challenges in some counties, or demand recounts, in order to block certification as long as possible. Just let me say that if the Dem's do that, it will create even further anger against their party in the state. As to next year, if Arnie does well, Bush could carry "Kali"-fornia.

The Dem voters in California have long made up their minds about Jesse Jackson, one way or another. Any lawsuit isn't going to affect the party at all.

quote: Arnie is extremely popular because he is very pro-business and pro-jobs while having no social-conservative baggage. If Bush learns from Arnie and adopts the same approach, he could win here.

Certainly the Republican party would do better in many states if it moderated it's social conservative policies. But that ain't gonna happen until there's a fundamental change in the GOP's internal balance of power, so it sure ain't gonna happen for Bush in 2004.

It's gonna be "it's the economy, stupid," all over again.

	08-10-2003 22:11									#152
	70% voter turnout Increase the size of your Attachments

I have never seen voter turnout this high. Whatever one might have thought about the recall, the high voter turnout is a good thing. Perhaps all elections should be recalls. It was also the most choice I have ever had in a general election. Primaries should be abolished.

	08-10-2003 22:13									#153
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Eat this Democrats!

	08-10-2003 22:14									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Ned K, yes, verily. I think people know that if you have no business you have no jobs. The Democrat party has a reputation for being anti-business.

'Pro-jobs' is a pointless term, it's quite a lot like 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' in the debate about abortions. Eupheonisms shouldn't really be used to describe a policy or ideology. That's propaganda.

	08-10-2003 22:14									#155
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Nex step state senate...

	08-10-2003 22:16									#156
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Have they counted the absentee ballots yet?

	08-10-2003 22:16									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Hmmm, I remember certain people saying Arnie would never win and Bustamante was a done deal . Anyway, it's interesting to see that Schwartzenegger got almost 50% of the vote with McClintock getting 13%. I'm thinking Cruz was tarred with the brush of Davis.

Gore and the vast right wing conspiracy, more than Davis himself.

Davis and the Cali Dem party proved once again that the Democratic party leadership knows how to self-destruct better than any political party in the world.

If you followed the poll numbers daily, the support for the recal and Bustamante's position vis-a-vis Arnie moved inversely in proportion to the volume of Davis' campaign spiel.

When Davis was shufflin' and rolling his eyes and pawin' the ground at those town hall meetings, saying "I's sorry, nex' time I gwine listen to y'all fo' sho'" support for the recall went down sharply, and Bustamante polled 5 points or so ahead of Arnie.

When the Dem Party elites got together and decided let's bring out Al Gore and Feinstein and Clinton and every other big name we can buy, and all claim "IT'S A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY TO STEAL ELECTIONS THEY COULDN'T WIN" the voters got turned off en masse.

Once again, Davis refusing to accept responsibility.

Once again, Davis trying to shift blame to some remote out of state force

Once again, Davis proving he knew nothing and cared less about the concerns of California voters.

And because you had all the party machinery spewing out this line of BS, and basically insulting the intelligence of the voters (it's the economy, stupid), Bustamente decided not to buck the party establishment any further and stuck with this "no on the recall" crap instead of pushing himself away from the morons in the Democratic Party Oberkommando.

	08-10-2003 22:20									#158
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Primaries should be abolished.

Primaries are the one tool the state and county party organization have to throttle real choice as to candidates.

	08-10-2003 22:22									#159
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Kropotkin:

quote: it's quite a lot like 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' in the debate about abortions

Not at all. Both sides have clearly delineated ideologies.

'Pro-business' is much more squishy.

Ned:

quote: To win here as a Republican, you really have to be at least in the middle on abortion and the environment, but have to hammer the pro-business, pro-job line.

Tell me how you sit the fence on abortion. I agree with most of your points, but to win in California, you have to be pro-abortion, nothing moderate about that.

quote: What I am suggesting is that Arnold is the prototype for the Republican party's future. Conservative on fiscal affairs. Pro business. Pro jobs. Pro strong America. But moderate to liberal on social issues.

That would be the dream for the Democrats. Prolifers vote very solidly Republican, so there is very little cause for the Republicans to move to the left, when the left in most of the US does not rank abortion policy as a priority. It would only hurt the Republicans to follow Arnie's stance nationally.

	08-10-2003 22:24									#160
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MichaeltheGreat:
If the Dems were not so stupid they could have saved themselves this defeat. Oh well. Maybe next time they will learn.

On anter note. I sent by absentee ballot in the mail on Friday. Just hoped that it got there on time and will get counted.

	08-10-2003 22:26									#161
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quote: Tell me how you sit the fence on abortion.

You say something like "I am pro-choice, but if it were my decision I would not encourage nor condone abortion acts. Every effort needs to be made to tackle the reasons why people may want to get an abortion and not the medical facilities the offer the treatment, or the cure..."

Or something...

	08-10-2003 22:31									#162
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quote: "I am pro-choice, but if it were my decision I would not encourage nor condone abortion acts. Every effort needs to be made to tackle the reasons why people may want to get an abortion and not the medical facilities the offer the treatment, or the cure..."

Sorry, you'd qualify as a staunch pro-abort. The key is the weasel words, 'if it were my decision.' If you really believed that abortions should not be done, you would not be pro-choice.

	08-10-2003 22:33									#163
	Absentees Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

They started counting absentee ballots as soon as they arrived. But, with the margins of victory this large, I don't really think a few votes either way will make any difference.

	08-10-2003 22:46									#164
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quote: Originally posted by pchang They started counting absentee ballots as soon as they arrived. But, with the margins of victory this large, I don't really think a few votes either way will make any difference.

I am hoping that this will add to the support of the recall and Arnold. My question had to do with the ballots that arived on election day, not the absentee ballots that came before the election day.

	08-10-2003 22:49									#165
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Those that arrive on the day are counted...

Yet, they know how many were issued, they know how many they received, and they probably know that it won't change the results... They will still be counted though.

	08-10-2003 22:50									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin 'Pro-jobs' is a pointless term, it's quite a lot like 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' in the debate about abortions. Eupheonisms shouldn't really be used to describe a policy or ideology. That's propaganda.

Being pro-business and pro-jobs is shorthand for fiscal conservatism here in the US. Yes it is a form of propaganda, but all politicians use simple catch phrases to get their message out. It makes things simpler.

	08-10-2003 22:53									#167
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Primaries are the one tool the state and county party organization have to throttle real choice as to candidates.

Yeah, and it really has not served the Republican party well. It produces candidates to far to the social-conservative right to win.

I too am thinking that perhaps we should abolish primaries.

	08-10-2003 23:05									#168
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Gore and the vast right wing conspiracy, more than Davis himself. Davis and the Cali Dem party proved once again that the Democratic party leadership knows how to self-destruct better than any political party in the world. If you followed the poll numbers daily, the support for the recal and Bustamante's position vis-a-vis Arnie moved inversely in proportion to the volume of Davis' campaign spiel. When Davis was shufflin' and rolling his eyes and pawin' the ground at those town hall meetings, saying "I's sorry, nex' time I gwine listen to y'all fo' sho'" support for the recall went down sharply, and Bustamante polled 5 points or so ahead of Arnie. When the Dem Party elites got together and decided let's bring out Al Gore and Feinstein and Clinton and every other big name we can buy, and all claim "IT'S A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY TO STEAL ELECTIONS THEY COULDN'T WIN" the voters got turned off en masse. Once again, Davis refusing to accept responsibility. Once again, Davis trying to shift blame to some remote out of state force Once again, Davis proving he knew nothing and cared less about the concerns of California voters. And because you had all the party machinery spewing out this line of BS, and basically insulting the intelligence of the voters (it's the economy, stupid), Bustamente decided not to buck the party establishment any further and stuck with this "no on the recall" crap instead of pushing himself away from the morons in the Democratic Party Oberkommando.

Good post. The people were seriously angry at Davis for misleading them on the budget just prior to the election last year. The only way he could have save his job is contritely confess to mistakes.

I wonder if the Democrat party establishment, centered in Clinton's New York combo living room, truly understood the anger of the people of California towards Davis.

	08-10-2003 23:07									#169
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YOu know that most of Northern California voted to keep Davis in office, while central and southern california voted to kick him out by large margin.

	08-10-2003 23:08									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Ned: Tell me how you sit the fence on abortion. I agree with most of your points, but to win in California, you have to be pro-abortion, nothing moderate about that.

Moderate:

1) Roe v. Wade, yes. It is a women's right to privacy.
2) Late term abortions, no.
3) Personally against abortions.

	08-10-2003 23:10									#171
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quote: 1) Roe v. Wade, yes. It is a women's right to privacy. 2) Late term abortions, no. 3) Personally against abortions.

I don't know a pro-abort who does not believe in one or two.

And I already dealt with three, so no dice.

	08-10-2003 23:12									#172
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I was pulling for Mary Carey.

	08-10-2003 23:14									#173
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I was pulling for Mary Carey.

I can't imagine why.

	08-10-2003 23:14									#174
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EDIT:
I found the information for the voter turn out. It was not so high as everyone thought. Only 8,212,980 people voted and that is out of 15,380,536. That is about a 53.3% voter turn out.

	08-10-2003 23:17									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Ben, I simply do not understand the position that abortion must be the subject of government regulation and prohibition or else you are on the hard left. We have a balancing of rights with abortion, with the right to life contesting with the right to privacy. Extremists emphasize one or the other. Moderates recognize the contest of rights and try to balance the two.

	08-10-2003 23:20									#176
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I was pulling for Mary Carey.

She did get 9,919 votes.

	08-10-2003 23:28									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www EDIT: I found the information for the voter turn out. It was not so high as everyone thought. Only 8,212,980 people voted and that is out of 15,380,536. That is about a 53.3% voter turn out.

Well, maybe Jesse Jackson was right that the minority voter was disenfranchised by moving the polling places to different locations and by printing the new locations on the sample ballots mailed to voters.

	08-10-2003 23:30									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www She did get 9,919 votes.

And, apparently, a lot more pulls.

	08-10-2003 23:52									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, maybe Jesse Jackson was right that the minority voter was disenfranchised by moving the polling places to different locations and by printing the new locations on the sample ballots mailed to voters.

Even 53.3% was much larger than the last election.

	09-10-2003 00:00									#180
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MtG: About possible efforts to gun for Boxer in 2004.. You said you doubt the GOP would want to make a big effort to go after her, but didn't you make the same argument doubting Arnold's chances in this election saying that the GOP would feel no need to back Schwarzenegger in this election?

I don't think being moderate should be too big of a problem for the RNC, in the 2002 elections Bush and Rove both made an effort to support the nomination of moderate candidates to run in the general election. You make a good point though about California elections being more expensive, but the same would have go for the DNC in that it would cost money to defend Boxer. As I understand, Boxer is considered to be evil personified by Republicans in California, and with this victory under their belt they should be particularly encouraged to keep up their attack. The Califronia Republican State Party and Gov. Schwarzenegger should be able to raise a fair amount of cash, and if they manage to nominate a moderate candidate, I'd think Boxer could face a challenge..


As far as the national party and it's position on abortion, it doesn't really make sense to "moderate" just because of California. Like Ben said, pro-lifers are the most consistent Republican voters, and the Abortion issue is the key to Republican dominance in the South and Midwest, who together far outweigh California in electoral votes.