Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Massachusetts, Jesus and Whiskey
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Field Marshal Klesh is offline Field Marshal Klesh
King
Klesh Marshal Field
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:30 Visit Field Marshal Klesh's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Massachusetts, Jesus and Whiskey Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So, the Massachusetts House just voted down a bill proposing to allow liquor sales on Sunday. An old set of laws from Puritan times called the Blue Laws outlawed the sale of alchohol on Sundays and a whole slew of other outdated things. Sale of liquor is not prohibited per se, but rather severely restricted on Sundays. If a town is 10 miles from the border of New Hampshire or Vermont (2 states that allow Sunday liquor sales), then their package stores are allowed to be open. Also, package stores throughout the state are allowed to be onpen on Sundays between Thanksgiving and New Year's.



What the hell kind of BS is this? I mean really. What does Jesus have to do with me wanting to get a sixer after a hard day's work on a Sunday. What if there are people spontaneously arriving to your house, and you need to do a little on the spot entertaining? What if you want the freedom to buy alchohol any day of the week you damn well please?

So I read an article about the vote, its pretty interesting. Lots of spoecial intrest groups ploying in this one. The Christians had a hand in it, as well as town who are 'privaledged' to be able to make extra tax $ by their favourable location to the border.


Boston Globe article.

Does your state or province restrict liquor sales on Tuesdays or anything like that?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:35 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Texas went through a couple of years of Blue Laws.
Some stores closed on Saturday rather than Sunday.
Not JUST booze. Most consumer goods not related to food and essentials.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:40 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The colonial Blue Laws were also used to give Amerindians in that region, the choice between converting to Christianity or being burned at the stake.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Pennsylvania also has some of the most severe alcohol laws in the country, its really annoying.

Field Marshal Klesh is offline Field Marshal Klesh
King
Klesh Marshal Field
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:43 Visit Field Marshal Klesh's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But the fact that this law has no basis in reality leads me to think it should be outed, no?

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I live in CT. No beer/liquor sold after 8pm Monday - Sat, no sales at all on Sundays. Not ideal, but really, one can plan ahead.

-Arrian

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:47 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

MrFun, you're bastardizing history again.

http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm


Origins:
The term "blue laws" originally applied to laws enacted by the Puritans in seventeenth-century Connecticut to regulate moral behavior (especially what people must or must not do on the Sabbath), laws which often called for rather harsh punishments to be applied to offenders. Blue laws typically specified penalties for moral offenses such as failure to attend church on the Sabbath; lying, swearing, and drunkenness; and the playing of games (such as cards, dice, and shuffleboard) in public. They also mandated more severe punishments for crimes committed on the Sabbath and regulated the sale and consumption of alcohol. Violators of blue laws might be assessed monetary fines, be whipped, be forced to spend time in the stocks, have body parts burned or cut off, or even receive the death penalty. As the influence of the colonial Puritan theocracies declined after the American Revolution, blue laws were generally abolished or went unenforced, although the temperance movements which began in the late nineteenth century brought a new round of legislation intended to regulate private conduct by banning the sale of cigarettes and alcohol, prohibiting amusements and "unnecessary labor" on Sundays, and providing for local censorship of arts and entertainment (such as books, plays, and films).

Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell. Thus various jurisidictions might have regulations which, on Sundays, prohibited the sale of hammers but not nails, forbade trading in horses while allowing automobile dealerships to remain open, or prohibited the purchase of alcohol at liquor stores but not grocery stores.

Also puzzling to latter-day Americans was the term "blue laws" itself. Why were these regulations called "blue laws"? With no obvious explanation at hand, we invented a satisfying one: these types of laws had originally been printed on blue paper or bound in books with blue covers.

Not so. No one has turned up seventeenth-century sheets of blue paper or blue-bound books containing these laws, nor has anyone found any seventeenth-century references to these regulations as "blue laws." The earliest recorded use of the term didn't appear until well over a century later, when the Reverend Samuel Peters' 1781 book, General History of Connecticut, described onerous colonial laws in the following manner:

Blue Laws; i.e. bloody Laws; for they were all sanctified with whipping, cutting off the ears, burning the tongue, and death.

(A variant of this tale posits a self-referential origin for the term by claiming that Peters' book itself was printed on blue paper!)

Although Peters maintained that early colonists did refer to these laws as "blue laws," he did not claim that the name was taken from the paper they were printed on, nor is there any evidence of an earlier usage of the term than his own. Since parts of Peters' book (such as his list of forty-five putative "blue laws") have since been found unreliable, it's possible he may simply have invented the term "blue laws" himself. If not, the term most likely derived from an eighteenth-century usage of the word "blue" as a disparaging reference to something perceived as "rigidly moral" (a "bluenose," for example, is one who advocates a rigorous moral code), not from the color of the material on which the laws themselves were printed.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 01:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell.


Yep, that sounds about right.

-Arrian

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:15 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
MrFun, you're bastardizing history again.

http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm


Origins:
The term "blue laws" originally applied to laws enacted by the Puritans in seventeenth-century Connecticut to regulate moral behavior (especially what people must or must not do on the Sabbath), laws which often called for rather harsh punishments to be applied to offenders. Blue laws typically specified penalties for moral offenses such as failure to attend church on the Sabbath; lying, swearing, and drunkenness; and the playing of games (such as cards, dice, and shuffleboard) in public. They also mandated more severe punishments for crimes committed on the Sabbath and regulated the sale and consumption of alcohol. Violators of blue laws might be assessed monetary fines, be whipped, be forced to spend time in the stocks, have body parts burned or cut off, or even receive the death penalty. As the influence of the colonial Puritan theocracies declined after the American Revolution, blue laws were generally abolished or went unenforced, although the temperance movements which began in the late nineteenth century brought a new round of legislation intended to regulate private conduct by banning the sale of cigarettes and alcohol, prohibiting amusements and "unnecessary labor" on Sundays, and providing for local censorship of arts and entertainment (such as books, plays, and films).

Many remnants of "blue laws" survived into the late twentieth century as seemingly nonsensical patchworks of regulations about which types of businesses could operate on Sundays and what items they could sell. Thus various jurisidictions might have regulations which, on Sundays, prohibited the sale of hammers but not nails, forbade trading in horses while allowing automobile dealerships to remain open, or prohibited the purchase of alcohol at liquor stores but not grocery stores.

Also puzzling to latter-day Americans was the term "blue laws" itself. Why were these regulations called "blue laws"? With no obvious explanation at hand, we invented a satisfying one: these types of laws had originally been printed on blue paper or bound in books with blue covers.

Not so. No one has turned up seventeenth-century sheets of blue paper or blue-bound books containing these laws, nor has anyone found any seventeenth-century references to these regulations as "blue laws." The earliest recorded use of the term didn't appear until well over a century later, when the Reverend Samuel Peters' 1781 book, General History of Connecticut, described onerous colonial laws in the following manner:

Blue Laws; i.e. bloody Laws; for they were all sanctified with whipping, cutting off the ears, burning the tongue, and death.

(A variant of this tale posits a self-referential origin for the term by claiming that Peters' book itself was printed on blue paper!)

Although Peters maintained that early colonists did refer to these laws as "blue laws," he did not claim that the name was taken from the paper they were printed on, nor is there any evidence of an earlier usage of the term than his own. Since parts of Peters' book (such as his list of forty-five putative "blue laws") have since been found unreliable, it's possible he may simply have invented the term "blue laws" himself. If not, the term most likely derived from an eighteenth-century usage of the word "blue" as a disparaging reference to something perceived as "rigidly moral" (a "bluenose," for example, is one who advocates a rigorous moral code), not from the color of the material on which the laws themselves were printed.


According to the documentary series, "500 Nations" one part of the Blue Laws concerned itself with Amerindians who were violating Christian customs by praticing their own customs.

Blue Laws consisted of a whole range of laws concerning moral behavior -- including killing Amerindians for not conforming to Christian customs.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Massachusetts, Jesus and Whiskey Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
If a town is 10 miles from the border of New Hampshire or Vermont (2 states that allow Sunday liquor sales), then their package stores are allowed to be open.


Of course, if that were true, then land 10 miles or farther into Massachusetts would be a barren wasteland, with a mysterous metropolis starting at exactly the border to exactly ten miles in.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We have a lot of Armenians here in California, they're nice people I wouldn't want to kill them... Laws here are good; alcohol, beer in wine sold in the gorcery stores (unlike most states), and sold everyday from 6am-2am, no sales after 2am... You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:27 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Where do you see that, MrFun?
Cite me something. You'd ask me if I didn't do it voluntarily.
I'm not trying to harrass you, I'm just saying I think you bend the truth in history a lot.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:30 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Read the book titled "500 Nations" or watch the part of the documentary video, "500 Nations" discussing the colonial period of the northeast.

There, they discuss how one of the Blue Laws sought to eradicate Amerindian cultural traditions.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 02:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
I live in CT. No beer/liquor sold after 8pm Monday - Sat, no sales at all on Sundays. Not ideal, but really, one can plan ahead.

-Arrian


Does that apply to bars and clubs?

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 03:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Perhaps the term "blue nose" was used to indicate the coldness of puritanical abstinence in contrast to the cheery red warmth of a good toddy quafed by a warm hearth as enjoyed by CofE types?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 03:39 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sawbones, you've evolved into quite the little jokester, haven't you?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 03:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by MrFun


According to the documentary series, "500 Nations" one part of the Blue Laws concerned itself with Amerindians who were violating Christian customs by praticing their own customs.

Blue Laws consisted of a whole range of laws concerning moral behavior -- including killing Amerindians for not conforming to Christian customs.


Had nothing much to do with Christian customs - practiciing their own cultures/customs was for both sides a defiance of white order and authority. It was about a very secular issue of domination of the territory.

However, since the term "Blue laws" is of such vague and generally valueless and non-contemporaneous origin, you can apply it to whatever floats your boat.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:05 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's not vague. It originated in Europe and was brought here.
All it takes is enough gumption to look it up.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Read the book titled "500 Nations" or watch the part of the documentary video, "500 Nations" discussing the colonial period of the northeast.

There, they discuss how one of the Blue Laws sought to eradicate Amerindian cultural traditions.


So they take an imprecise term of uncertain origin and attribute one of many aspects of colonial policy towards the Indians to it?

Cool. I love editorial history.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Japher
We have a lot of Armenians here in California, they're nice people I wouldn't want to kill them... Laws here are good; alcohol, beer in wine sold in the gorcery stores (unlike most states), and sold everyday from 6am-2am, no sales after 2am... You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here..


Developing a touch of dyslexia are we? Or was it just a slip of the fingers on the keyboard. Amerinds are the native peoples of the Americas. Armenians are one of the nations inhabiting the Caucasus Mountain region.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

It would be a shame if you had to go an entire DAY without purchasing alcohol.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:16 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Japher. He be confused a lot.

Field Marshal Klesh is offline Field Marshal Klesh
King
Klesh Marshal Field
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
Question  Old Post 10-10-2003 04:22 Visit Field Marshal Klesh's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Verto
It would be a shame if you had to go an entire DAY without purchasing alcohol.



What if Sunday is the only day I want to buy it?

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 07:45 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


So they take an imprecise term of uncertain origin and attribute one of many aspects of colonial policy towards the Indians to it?

Cool. I love editorial history.


It's not editorial history.

But then again, maybe any historical scholarly work that is not WASPish or Anglophilic does not entail serious scholarly work, eh, MTG?

Do you play along the old cliche that any historical work that portrays relations between European colonists and Amerindians more accurately as just left-wing, political correctness, mumbo jumbo?

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 08:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I can see it now: Huge migrations from the inner state to the borders where alcohol sales is legal. Busses filled with people ready to purchase some booze. I could start a transport company and become rich in days! I'd better start before anyone else catches on to my scheme.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 09:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Japher. He be confused a lot.


I'm confused by that ungainly and racist word as well.

DanielXY is offline DanielXY
Warlord
Germany
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 09:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

"No more booze! Aaaargh! Evacuate the citys!"

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 09:21 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I'm confused by that ungainly and racist word as well.


Do we really need to go down this road again?

If you don't like the word Amerindian, then just revert to the racist word that confuses people with people of India -- Indians.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 09:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I prefer American Aboriginal Persons.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 10-10-2003 09:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mr Fun, just admit you've been schooled and move on .

 
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0572 seconds (92.04% PHP - 7.96% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net