10-10-2003 20:04									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Mr. Fun: I suggest you read one of my posts to Shi if you think I advocate banning condoms. I also challenge you to find a post of mine where I have ever advocated banning condoms.

Hey, you want to ban gay unions, so I thought you were crazy enough to advocate banning condoms.

But in all seriousness, my last post was really a trolling strawman.

	10-10-2003 21:28									#62
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quote: so I thought you were crazy enough to advocate banning condoms.

I suggest a valuable skill called reading.

Ever heard of it?

quote: my last post was really a trolling strawman.

Well don't stop on my account. Practice makes perfect.

	10-10-2003 21:31									#63
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The pope is an idiot, everyone knows you get HIV from drinking out of the same water fountains as homos

	10-10-2003 22:05									#64
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Japher, now you ruined our diabolical plans for world population eradication by revealing our secret plan.

you bastard

	11-10-2003 02:16									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove My data comes from the UN / WHO conference on AIDS held in South Africa. The data used to be on the internet, it might still be if you look for it. This data is considerably more comprehensive than a small study done under ideal conditions. When I say that usage of condoms is only 50% effective I mean that it decreases the rate of transmission by 50%, not that 50% of those involved will get infected. I have a collection of NEJM, but it will take some time to locate a 9 year old article, if I still have it at all. In what little data you have given us there is no comparison of the rate of transmission between condom users and condom non-users. You could say, but only those who didn't use the thing all the time got the diseaes, but I will reply that those participants still legitimately belong in the condom user group because in the real world you would expect some non-compliance. Are you going to take everyone infected with AIDS and sew a condom over their penis? Can I point out why that doesn't work? I find it utterly incredible that there wasn't at least some rate of condom breakage, as you would expect in the real world. I think you would have to admit that in the real world breakage is going to occur. It is certainly well documented in studies of the efficacy of condoms as birth control. Please also note that the rate of transmission in the US is much lower than that in Africa. An HIV infected homosexual in the US stands a 1:100 chance of passing the virus with each instance of anal intercourse when the infected person is the inserting partner. Among heterosexual couples in the US the probability is 1:200 - 300 if the male is HIV+. In Africa the probability of transmission among heterosexual couples is about 1:30.

Hetero studies don't indicate the risks from butt sex. That is a more trying test of the condom. Unless the "bottom" is loose.

	11-10-2003 02:32									#66
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quote: You'd take Asher's word over that of an actual physician? Are you retarded?

Really, you need to ask?

	11-10-2003 02:58									#67
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Come to think of it I have a young lady in my practice who came to me to be put on the pill a while back. She presented too late to start the pill during that cycle, so we discussed the risks of becoming pregnant. She decided to use condoms that month anyway. Now she's preparing to become a brand new mom.

	11-10-2003 03:34									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Well, the HIV epidemic is just more fuel that the Roman Catholic church uses to fuel the belief of: "be fruitful and multiply" - It doesn't matter that there is already too many people in this world to feed properly...

i think its more a problem of distribution.

	11-10-2003 03:38									#69
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Like the Pope knows anything at all about bodily matters below the chin....

	11-10-2003 04:00									#70
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I'm sure his drool must drip from his chin once in a while...or do you think it's constantly being swabbed up by attentive altar boys?

	11-10-2003 04:19									#71
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I had good results with the condom. As long as you wear it. It doesn't rip. Not if the girl is lubed up. Lifestyles are better than Trojans. Trojans are too small and they bind when you are unrolling them.

The sponge sucks. Don't ever trust it. Be a man. Use a condom. That way, you have positive control. Not relying on the lady.

	11-10-2003 04:24									#72
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I had good results with the condom. As long as you wear it. It doesn't rip. Not if the girl is lubed up. Lifestyles are better than Trojans. Trojans are too small and they bind when you are unrolling them. The sponge sucks. Don't ever trust it. Be a man. Use a condom. That way, you have positive control. Not relying on the lady.

I haven't had good results. I've had them break on me. Mind you I'm no Michael Jordan. I'm more like a Wally Cox.

	11-10-2003 04:28									#73
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I'm actually too big for the Trojans. But Lifestyles work well. I've never had one break on me. Do you get the woman lubed up? ARe you doing somtheing different from me?

	11-10-2003 09:31									#74
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This must be a "first" on Apolyton -- straight men making an excuse to compare their c*ck sizes.

	11-10-2003 15:03									#75
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quote: Really, you need to ask?

It was a rhetorical question.

	12-10-2003 08:05									#76
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quote: quote: You'd take Asher's word over that of an actual physician? Are you retarded?

1. I do have an healty distrust towards any authority
2. I never said I took his word for it. A: I said 'they looked closer to the truth. B: Asher didn't make these figures up.
3. No need to go the 'you're retard' way

	12-10-2003 18:40									#77
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It's weird how a cardinal would step forwards to start telling people how to use condoms.

I mean, that strikes me like me going out and lecturing a load of physicists on quantum mechanics.

	12-10-2003 19:38									#78
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I think the important thing that were passing over is that, in the majority of cases, the sexual partners won't know that they're infected. Depending on the circumstances, the dormant phase for HIV can be quite long, during which time the person may unwittingly infect other partners.

This is why condoms are important, if the attitude can be changed so that condoms are the default option for sexual partners, then the number of infections will go down!

That's the flaw with what the Cardinal is saying! It condoms don't protect then, -apart from baby reasons- what is the point of couples wearing them? Because they might have HIV, fool!

Of course abstinence is the best option for people who know they're infected, in that case using a condom is like replacing a 6-barrel revolver with a 12-barrel one when playing Russian Roulette.

	12-10-2003 19:38									#79
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That your photo in your sig Alinestra?

	12-10-2003 19:51									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil I think the important thing that were passing over is that, in the majority of cases, the sexual partners won't know that they're infected. Depending on the circumstances, the dormant phase for HIV can be quite long, during which time the person may unwittingly infect other partners. This is why condoms are important, if the attitude can be changed so that condoms are the default option for sexual partners, then the number of infections will go down! That's the flaw with what the Cardinal is saying! It condoms don't protect then, -apart from baby reasons- what is the point of couples wearing them? Because they might have HIV, fool! Of course abstinence is the best option for people who know they're infected, in that case using a condom is like replacing a 6-barrel revolver with a 12-barrel one when playing Russian Roulette.

Good points. There are parts fo Africa where the incidence of HIV infection among the sexually active part of the population is so high that you'd be better off assuming that everyone you might have an encounter with may have the disease.

	12-10-2003 21:11									#81
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That's true, but most people -sadly- don't think like that..

"Hmm, I'm not dying... I must be safe"

Then they don't bother to ask the other partner! For one thing its embarassing to many people.

	12-10-2003 21:23									#82
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Young people also tend to think that they're immortal.

	12-10-2003 21:39									#83
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There are a lot of posts in this thread that are driven more by emotion and anti-catholicism than any real consideration of the facts.

Strangelove: Very interesting.

	12-10-2003 22:27									#84
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quote: Originally posted by elijah That your photo in your sig Alinestra?

That's not a sig, that's an avatar. And stop staring long enough to read the location field

	13-10-2003 05:22									#85
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quote: Good points. There are parts fo Africa where the incidence of HIV infection among the sexually active part of the population is so high that you'd be better off assuming that everyone you might have an encounter with may have the disease.

In some parts it's even more sad in a strange way at least. In certain places in Africa HIV infection is actually going down because there is hardly anyone left to infect.

	13-10-2003 06:12									#86
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this is the final straw for me. I will make it my personal crusade to bring down western religions.

What's the difference between christianity and a cult? I fail to see any.

	13-10-2003 06:15									#87
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you are not making sense

calm down and think things through a bit more

Jon Miller

	13-10-2003 06:20									#88
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can anyone prove to me that religions are anything more than cults?

	13-10-2003 06:23									#89
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what do you consider a cult?

religions all started out as cults

now they are something different

Jon Miller

	13-10-2003 06:33									#90
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In what way are they different?