10-10-2003 04:23									#1
	Pope says condoms are no good against HIV Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Health experts around the world urge people to use condoms to protect themselves from HIV and a host of sexually transmitted infections. However, the Catholic Church has consistently refused to back such calls. The Vatican is opposed to contraception and has advocated that people change their behaviour instead. But according to Panorama, the Church is now telling people that condoms do not work. In an interview, one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo suggested HIV could even pass through condoms. "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom," he says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm

Catholisism is so backwards why don't they merge with islam or something. /end troll

If the pope gets the nobel peace prize I'll vomit

discuss

	10-10-2003 04:25									#2
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Last time I checked, what one Cardinal says isn't official policy...

	10-10-2003 04:28									#3
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Well, the HIV epidemic is just more fuel that the Roman Catholic church uses to fuel the belief of: "be fruitful and multiply" - It doesn't matter that there is already too many people in this world to feed properly...

	10-10-2003 04:28									#4
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quote: The Archbishop of Nairobi Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told Panaroma that condoms were helping to spread the virus. "Aids...has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms," he said.

	10-10-2003 04:30									#5
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HIV can pass through ram skin condoms, but not latex...


Even so, cardinals know about God, scientists know about HIV...

	10-10-2003 04:32									#6
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exactly. they shouldn't be talking about stuff they know **** all about. especially when they have the backing of the world's most influential church (or speak on behalf of it )

Last edited by Gangerolf on 10-10-2003 at 04:37

	10-10-2003 04:37									#7
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How are they supposed to talk about sex issues when all they can do is raping young kids

	10-10-2003 04:39									#8
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oh please...

	10-10-2003 04:41									#9
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You all missed the point. What the pope is saying is condoms by default do not work agst preventing HIVs. However, a blessed condoms should have no such problems.

Go get your condoms blessed folks.

	10-10-2003 04:43									#10
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well jack has got a point you know...

	10-10-2003 04:50									#11
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I'd bet the Pope meant that condoms aren't 100% effective not that they are useless.

	10-10-2003 04:52									#12
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Yeah, we really ought to give this man the Nobel prize for peace..., ain't he a saint.. * sigh *

	10-10-2003 04:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'd bet the Pope meant that condoms aren't 100% effective not that they are useless.

So why were the following statements made in the linked to article?

quote: The programme includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choir master not to use condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through". The Archbishop of Nairobi Raphael Ndingi Nzeki told Panaroma that condoms were helping to spread the virus. "Aids...has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms," he said.

The conduct of the Catholic church on this matter is unbelievably appalling.

	10-10-2003 06:30									#14
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Condoms are rated as only "moderately effective" at preventing the spread of the HIV virus by the WHO. Circumcision appears to be about equally effective. Either technique decreases the risk of catching the HIV virus by only about 50% at best.

If you are infected with the HIV virus you should abstain! I don't know of any health organization that officially approves of HIV positive people engaging in sexual intercourse while using a condom. To do so would make that organisation an accomplice to murder. In Africa the probability that an HIV infected person will pass the virus to his mate is about 1:30 for each episode of sexual contact. Using a condome might improve that to 1:60. If they have intercourse 3 times/week, how many weeks will it take to make the cumulative risk of transmission to more than 50%?

Last edited by Dr Strangelove on 10-10-2003 at 06:39

	10-10-2003 06:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Condoms are rated as only "moderately effective" at preventing the spread of the HIV virus by the WHO. Circumcision appears to be about equally effective. Either technique decreases the risk of catching the HIV virus by only about 50% at best.

A HIGHLY misleading statistic. I'm guessing that included not just improperly applied condems and the like, but a large number of sexual encounters over a prolonged period. I believe for a single incident its well over 93% effective and much higher in ideal conditions. The reason circumcisions tend to be close to the same effectiveness over the longterm (I suspect you're exaggering the similarity and would like to see a link) because one a circumcision is done properly it can't be screwed up when having sex. The Vactican representatives also seemed to be specificly suggesting that a properly applied condom is highly ineffective in blocking the AIDS virus.

	10-10-2003 06:41									#16
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Who cares about ideal conditions? Field conditions are the only ones that count.

	10-10-2003 06:53									#17
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1. This seems to be just a cardinal, not the pope.

2. Even if it was the Pope, it would still have no bearing. Church teaching is only doctrine when it comes to matters of faith and morals, the Church has no authority to speak on sciences. The Church's teachings do not change at all because of the Cardinal's statement.

	10-10-2003 06:55									#18
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Crazy Christians o_0

	10-10-2003 07:00									#19
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quote: The programme includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choir master not to use condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

This is bad Catholic doctrine. Contraceptive devices are licit if the intent in using them is not to prevent conception, but rather some acceptable end. Thus, "the pill" may be taken by a woman to regulate her period, I am sure in the instance describe above a condom would be ok.

	10-10-2003 07:10									#20
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Doc is that stastic for butt sex or for vaginal intercourse? I've heard the butt sex rips things up a lot more. never done it though.

	10-10-2003 07:38									#21
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This is just another piece of evidence that the Pope's dinosaur age has caused him to become more senile.

	10-10-2003 07:47									#22
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what a dope

	10-10-2003 07:48									#23
	Re: Pope says condoms are no good against HIV Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm Catholisism is so backwards why don't they merge with islam or something. /end troll If the pope gets the nobel peace prize I'll vomit discuss

Actually this is true for some condoms. Condoms not made out of latex stop sprem but dont stop the virus from going through. Also I think condoms in general have a 90% or higher rate were they do stop virus from going through, but sometimes they dont work for various reasons. I think this is more a twisting of the truth then all out lie. Catholisism though has a long history of lieing to people. Also you have to consider that the pope is not doing so well and I think his mind is not there.

	10-10-2003 08:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Well, the HIV epidemic is just more fuel that the Roman Catholic church uses to fuel the belief of: "be fruitful and multiply" - It doesn't matter that there is already too many people in this world to feed properly...

there is far more food right now than people

the problem lies with capitalism and distribution, not the ammount of food

Jon Miller

	10-10-2003 08:12									#25
	Re: Re: Pope says condoms are no good against HIV Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www but sometimes they dont work for various reasons.

Such as having condom-less genital contact and only putting one on when anticipating ejaculation. That also fails to prevent pregnancy.

Like, duh.

	10-10-2003 08:15									#26
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Doc is that stastic for butt sex or for vaginal intercourse? I've heard the butt sex rips things up a lot more. never done it though.

The statistic is compiled from a number of studies from around the world, so it overall applies to both.

I don't care what anyone says. If I have a patient whom I know has HIV I don't tell him "Here, have a condom and go enjoy yourself."

	10-10-2003 08:28									#27
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Just want to say a joke that indicates what I'm thinking:

A physicist, mathematician and engineer are on a train travelling through a beautiful English countryside. On the hill, the see a lone black sheep.

"Look!", says the engineer, "there are black sheep in this country."

"No," says the physicist. "The best you can say is that there is ONE black sheep in this country."

"No," says the mathematician. "The best you can say is that there is ONE sheep that is black on ONE side in this country."

	10-10-2003 08:46									#28
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I don't really have a problem with anyone saying that people with HIV shouldn't be having sex. Common sense. I do have a problem with the church's general stance on protected sex. It's really irresponsible to tell people they should not protect themselves, regardless of the circumstances surrounding their intercourse, especially when you have so much sway in countries where it's a real problem.

	10-10-2003 09:14									#29
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Article:

quote: In an interview, one of the Vatican's most senior cardinals Alfonso Lopez Trujillo suggested HIV could even pass through condoms.

Title:

quote: Pope says condoms are no good against HIV

	10-10-2003 09:16									#30
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Imran wants a cookie for pointing out the inconsistency between the thread title and the article.