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Well, I've had these lying around for awhile, and I was considering getting back to work on it. Just tell whether or not these look like it's worth the time it would take (a LOT) to finish the scenario.
This is a shot of Europe around 1954/55. Notice the T-54/55s and the Pershings. I like them. 
I stuck an airbase next to Berlin to simulate West Berlin, but I was thinking of making a fortress there or pollution, or at least something.
The colors are crap because I used a .gif instad of a .bmp (which it looks best for). The bmps are uploaded though, but this one in nearly 1MB in size.
http://www.geocities.com/sifl1690466/Euross.bmp
Here's an image of the map. It's got 7 civs, Americans, Soviets, West Europeans, Baghdad Pact/Arab League, Chinese, Third-World and the Nuetrals. Several important cities like Havana, and Tokyo (all Japanese cities) are barbarians, so they could eventually become either Western backers or Communist backers.
China is also interesting. Only the northern half of the country is occupied by the communists, so they have to counquer the rest of the nation and then progress.
Now remember, this is for TOT, and it's meant to be a 4-player MP game. SO just give me some feedback. I might even contruct a screen shot of some nukes flying at Moscow or Washington.
I decided to add this one as well.
Just a simple image of the US eastern seaboard complete with factories.
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited August 12, 2000).]
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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The cities look only one space apart. That terrain better be super-producing...
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Hey, it took me about 7 months to get those cities placed right...
And that was another idea I had. Both the Soviet Union and the United States have to rely on food caravans to continue production in the larger cities. That way, if war ever comes about, there are two ways to effectively destroy the nation.
1. Take out their large production cities.
2. Take out their farming cities, which makes the production cities starve.
You're also looking at Europe, the most crowded part of the map.
Now, if you guys keep asking questions then I'll have to keep giving out more and more of the ideas I had for this this, and I don't want to do that. 
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited August 07, 2000).]
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SixArmedMan
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Toronto, Canada.
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
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City management looks like hell. Especially for the W. Europeans and the Russians. And the tank kinda' loses their value when the cities are barely two spaces apart, don't they? But the concept of the map, I like, flinging nukes over the arctic, and stuff and the graphics are bar none, some of the best I've seen. It looks fun altogether, as long as you're not the euros or the Russians.
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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China should be pretty over-crowded too shouldn't it?
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Are you going to try to simulate the populations too?
Have you already run out of cities?
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City management wouldn't be a problem if I got around to finishing it. Trust me.
All units will have to ability to ignore zones of control, making Soviet tanks ideal for taking out American bases in Germany, and the only hope the Americans have to take out those tanks is with attack helicopters.
But anyway...back to city management...cities aren't meant to grow. People would definately have to defend the farming cities. Indutrial improvements (Factories, Farms, Railroads, Suburbs) would have to be made, etc., to the land that is already in the city radius.
Now...STOP WORRYING ABOUT CITY MANAGEMENT. That isn't the point of the scenario. The entire scenario is about trying to balance the strengths of your nation against the weaknesses of your nation, while trying to survive against a hostile opponent. There are lots of little things that you have to take care of to defend your interests. What's not going to happen is each nation cranking out units so that they can attack by 1960....that **** just isn't gonna happen.
The Soviets and the WEs will have one hell of a time continueing to rebuild after WWII, so that's got to happen before any figthing will begin.
I actually think that the Soviets would be the most fun to play. lots of stuff happens, from helping China, to Cuba, to Afghanistan, to the civil wars in Greece and Turkey, and then the Hungary, Czecheslovakia, and Poland revolutions. It's a lot to do.
ANYWAY. China is pretty crowded, but only on the eastern coast where about 2/3 of the people are in 1/3 of the land. NTM that the Chinese and Indians aren't very powerful to begin with. They are recovering form WWII and British Colonialism, and won't be doing much for years.
Now. I think the overall attitude has been a good one. So should I keep going? WOuld anybody actually want to play this as a 4-way MP game?
Remember, there are 3 maps that are for certain (Underwater, Ground, Air), and I'm not sure if I should make a lunar map of not.
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yeah, populations are fairly important.
I ran out of cities. 
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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So if population is supposed to be simulated too...do you have an extra terrain? You could make it super-producing in food, you could name it "rice patties" or something like in Andrew Livings' WWII worldwide scenario.
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every terrain square is used up in the map, but grassland and plains have recieved significant boosts in food production. Irrigation (now farms) does a ton of extra food production are are only given to the major farming cities. Level II Farms are rarely used, but you won't be able to tell as they use the same graphic as the Level I Farms.
but you don't even have TOT, there's no point in telling this to you.
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Michael Daumen
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Research Triangle
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
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Never Fear, Civ2ers! I have an original .sav game from version 2.78 with the same basic map. There are not as many cities as Eddie's (and they are not placed as well as his) but this was the first version of what we had in mind. Post here or email me and I will decide which is better, zip file or upload.
We switched to ToT for a couple reasons: the multiple maps and extra unit slots. Extra event space and more unit abilities don't hurt either. But if Eddie has figured out the multiple unit questions, we may be better off going back to normal Civ2.
The multiple maps were for sub warfare, since we made subs able to teleport to the underwater map and evade attackers. Then we said "cool, let's make an aerial map so bombers can avoid SAMs." But the underwater map doesn't work, as I understand that a transport can't teleport unless all the units it carries can teleport as well. So this would mean missiles attacking subs underwater, or only "empty" subs can dive deep. Maybe a two-map ground/sky game is the way to go. Or maybe no one has the objections I have to the underwater missile idea (I envision SLBMs to have pretty limited range anyway, so that a sub has to sidle up pretty close to a coastline to do its damage).
Maybe we should do a cold-war forum, with discussions for:
a) nations involved
b) unit questions
c) city questions
et c.
By the way, I thought Eddie did a hell of a job on the big map even if may go for naught.
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Wait, for the .sav game, I assume other files, like units and stuff come with it...right?
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Yeah, Mike and I were talking for months about certain things, especially the multiple units part. For now, all I have is a theory (and hope that it will work) so that I can get in just about 100 units. This means that there will be complete American and Soviet lines of MBTs, APCs/AFVs, Helicopters, Fighters, Bombers, ICBMs, SLBMs, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers, and Submarines.
I just couldn't do that with regular civ.
Now, regarding the SLBMs underwater. How often are two subs gonna find each other? And then why would somebody waste an expensive nuke on a single submarine (unless there were nukes on it). Maybe there should just be a house rule.
A two-map game would definately make the scenario easier to make. Especially if I don't have to draw new terrains for underwater.
HA! I remember all those emails we had about generic and specific units! At least I finally figured out where the units would go, and how they'd fit in.
Yeah, we could totally have a Cold War forum. I would make one at Q9, but nobody goes there.
------------------
Administrator at
www.quantum9.com
Visit the forums!
www.quantum9.com/forums
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Cold War forum? Sounds like something for the OTF.
Eddie, what year will this scenario go up to again? Will the Chinese be building Soviet armor?
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Yes, the Chinese are basically dependent on Soviet units for the entire game, so they've got suck up to the Russians to get everything. The Wes Europeans/NATO (Canada is in with them) have more freedom than the Chinese do. They have their own line of fighters and armour, and even a nuclear bomber (Mirage IV). I have two slots left, which I could use to add British Ships, and that should make things interesting.
I could also try to make a moon landing situation with them, like collecting samples which are units up on the moon. That would be tough to do though.
Other ideas I've had are to add a Chinese fighter, like the J-7, which would be cheap and VERY easy to build, but I haven't decided yet.
I'm planning on it eventually ending in the 1990's, I mean, I could probably add new units that are coming into service around 2000 (or that could be coming into service), but at 12 turns a year, that's approximately 600 turns from Apr 49 to Apr 99. People wouldn't stand for a longer scenario.
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Hey, I would: Hell, I'd play past the limit anyway.
So do the Chinese have to research anything at all or do they just ask the Soviets? What about unit Chinese units? None? Too little space?
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Civfan
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Toronto, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:13
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looks good guys..Since there will be nukes, the cities being so close wont be a problem.. nuke them to death...Is the east filled with alot of cities... i mean iraq and isreal....Can't really tell..
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Yeah Mao, cos you've just got that much time on your hands.
The Chinese don't really have to research jack, but I could esily make it so that they could just go on down the Soviet path. Although, with militarization and and modernization, I dunno why you'd divert materials to research...
There aren't any specific Chinese units other than the Chinese Infantry. I mean, just about everything was Soviet made, so there's no point in using up another units slot.
Yeah Civfan, the Mid-East is crammed. There's barely room for the major cities (Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Amman, Damascus, Beirut) to place any others that might have a little bit of relevence. That region is loosely placed, so the cities are just there for historical accuracy, and a bit of an Arab-Israeli war thing.
Well EC, I unfortunately don't know much about the British nuclear program. I added the Mirage IV because the Euros needed something to deter the Soviets. Maybe I should simply add the Vulcan in there to make them have two generations of nuclear bombers. I'll look and see if I can find abything that's useful.
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Michael Daumen
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Research Triangle
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
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Here is the zip file for the Civ2 cold war sav. Please note that it does not include any of Eddie's units or the total number of cities he has.
This is tentatively set in 1979, so the nations are US, EEC, Warsaw Pact, China, Developed Nations, Third World Nations and Islamic States. This allowed from some potential wars such as Iraq/Iran, India/Pakistan, China/India, Israel/Arabs as well as the main event. Also, there are city improvments and wonders already in play.
[This message has been edited by Michael Daumen (edited August 10, 2000).]
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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Ah I see, this is only the Cold War, ok. I assume there's an impressive array of units?
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I don't think I'd use the word impressive for it...
I won't say anything about it at the moment, but I'll say that it took me about as long to make the units list as it did for me to make the map. And there are over 100 units in the game.
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08-08-2000 05:24
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