11-10-2003 04:26									#1
	something about iraq 2003 you may not have seen that way before Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

http://www.monochrom.at/irark/monochrom-irark-2003.ram
about 8MB (the downloadable version, link is the streamin version)

(knowledge of german assumed)

For non-german speakers:
its a real video stream with images from the iraq war coverings, but the sounds have been replaced with sounds from the movie Rambo.

Reminds me that I havent seen rambo yet
Judging from the dialogs this could be quite funny though. Any recommendations?

ata

	11-10-2003 06:27									#2
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This is crap, and reminds me of the idiotic fact that all foreign movies in Germany (and France) are dubbed by B-actors instead of sub-titled in German text. The movies get totally depraved of the efforts and emotions by the original actors. Well, OK, that makes no difference to Stallone movies, naturally

	11-10-2003 12:19									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie This is crap, and reminds me of the idiotic fact that all foreign movies in Germany (and France) are dubbed by B-actors instead of sub-titled in German text. The movies get totally depraved of the efforts and emotions by the original actors. Well, OK, that makes no difference to Stallone movies, naturally

Either you mean 'deprived' or you have an incredibly subtle sense of irony...

	11-10-2003 13:13									#4
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It does lose something in the translation

	11-10-2003 13:13									#5
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Although the rummy bit does make me see the potential

	11-10-2003 13:48									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie This is crap, and reminds me of the idiotic fact that all foreign movies in Germany (and France) are dubbed by B-actors instead of sub-titled in German text. The movies get totally depraved of the efforts and emotions by the original actors. Well, OK, that makes no difference to Stallone movies, naturally

HA!
First of all I dont think it is crap and idiotic. The dubbing industry in Germany has reached quite a standard already and every actor has its voice. A movie by Danny DeVito all the time has the same voice.

Second I can give you an example of a movie that I saw in both languages: "The thin red line". We started watching with the english version because some of my colleagues are of the "original-it-is!!" type
Then people were not really watching the movie because it was quite difficult to understand (e.g. the scene where the one officer and the other guy were sitting at a small table in the body of the ship, quite in the beginning) and there were still some topics to discuss. So we rolled back and started the german version. We then watched the whole movie in german and afterwards gave it another try in english but it looked soooo ridiculous and stupid in english. The actors totally unprofessional. It looked like a joke so we switched off.
That has convinced me that anybody who is against dubbing in general doesnt really know the difference.

There may be other examples, there may be examples that favor the original, but I think it has to decided movie by movie and not with a general "dubbed is crap".

I rather think sub-titles are crap. Because in all of the movies I have seen I tend to read the sub-titles. Even if I try hard to ignore them I cant. I'd have to try so hard that I couldn't enjoy the movie anymore.

ata

	11-10-2003 20:33									#7
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Atahualpa:

C'mom, be fair. Thin Red Line had horrible dialogue to start out with.

	12-10-2003 02:42									#8
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muahaha ok i'll be fair
in german it didnt sound that much horrible
but then this doesnt speak for german does it?

horray!!
woaah no I am not drunk
ejeeeewohwaaaa


:diiiiizzzzyyy:

oh boy

	12-10-2003 04:32									#9
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I haven't seen the thin red line but it is a wonder to me how someone could get such an amazing cast and make a bad movie.

	12-10-2003 05:43									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Static Universe Either you mean 'deprived' or you have an incredibly subtle sense of irony...

Yes, it was a typo.

And on the Thin Red Line - I bet Nick Nolte sounds great speaking German...

	12-10-2003 13:25									#11
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quote: And on the Thin Red Line - I bet Nick Nolte sounds great speaking German...

I bet you havent seen the movie in german and just making assumptions
Because you have taken just the wrong example. Nick Nolte's german voice in this movie is superbest!!! Fits him excellently!

	12-10-2003 18:19									#12
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American films are probably just as good when dubbed, but British ones would be totally destroyed. Half the delight in such films comes from the cool accents they have. Of course this means that French and Spanish films and all other films in nice sounding languages should not be dubbed.

F.e., Ata, have you ever watched the Mexican film "Y tu mama tambien" dubbed in German? What's the German world for "pendejo" then?

	12-10-2003 22:53									#13
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axi,

no sorry I havent. But I have read it couple of times. Movies of this kind they play OmU here (original with subtitle) in alternative cinemas. Normally only mainstream movies get dubbed. But sometimes they also dub alternative movies. I believe I saw dubbed version of "Lucia y el sexo" but I am not sure (an awesome movie btw).

About english films. Well I saw dubbed version of Trainspotting, Lock Stock and 2 smokin barrels (the one from Guy Ritchie),... I really liked them. They are great movies and I hardly miss any things such as accents.

About accents, what use is there if I listen to accents anyway. When I can hardly find them funny? I have connections and emotions towards english accents but hardly to any other. So this does not create any emotions inside me (some of which the author may have desired) and such are completely useless.
An extreme example would be Good morning Vietnam. The dubbed version of this movie is bad, worse, worst. But then I am sure watching the original would give me just the same feelings because I have absolutely no connection to American accent.

And they do bring accent into dubbing of course. So lets assume a movie with american-mexican border. Then yanks would speak plain german and gringos would speak like how it is commonly assumed that they would speak german. So you get german and spanish-german instead of english and spanish-english.
The relations and hierachys are still in place. Its only that 100% here can understand it, instead of just 20% (or something).

An example of where the original is wayy better is "Ali G: In da House". His german voice sucks big time and it did annoy me. But the movie was funny so I did not care too much.

Overall we are blessed here with an awesome dubbing industry! So when people here swear on originals only I can only shake my head.
I mean you'll see the difference if you watch some of this teleshop programs. There they just use amateur speakers dont take care of environmental reflections, mouth movement or if the voice fits the look of the speaker. Thats bad. Thats really bad and I can fully understand if someone swears on originals if this would be standard. I dont know much about other countries (and I can hardly judge) but I doubt that any country's dubbing industry comes close to germany.

The only downside of dubbing is the english "you" which is formal and informal as well. In german you have seperate words that are "Sie" (formal) and "Du" (informal). But well I am not a nitpicker and if this would be something that destroys fun I guess I could not have any fun at all. Anyway I think its possible to contact the storywriter and check if he meant the relationship to be formal or informal.

ata

	13-10-2003 16:32									#14
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In Greece, only cartoons get dubbed (because little kids don't like reading subtitles) and some low quality latin american soap. Documentaries also, but these are voice-overs rather than actual dubbing.

"Ali G: In da House" would sound to me hilarious if it was dubbed in German. Most black american films would; afro-american slang is perhaps the only American accent that is worth listening to.

quote: So you get german and spanish-german instead of english and spanish-english.

I wonder what happens with american WW2 films, where the Germans in the film are speaking either German, or even worse, English with a German accent. If the English/Americans are dubbed as speaking regular German, how are the Germans dubbed? Do they use a heavier accent. Or do they have the "English speakers" use a foreign accent?

In Greece, in the rare occasion where something similar happens, we just don't print the subtitles, or, if the Greek spoken within is indiscernible, we just print the Greek subtitles over the English ones.

Btw, this is the most successful threadjacking I ever saw. There was no mention of Iraq whatsoever after the first post.