22-10-2003 01:33									#91
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quote: Originally posted by player1 -So it's good chance that last Seafaring combo with Industrious will get Carthage

That will make me really angry. But you're probably right. Who knows though, maybe the FRENCH will be seafaring and industrious... it makes a certain amount of sense.

	22-10-2003 02:24									#92
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speaking of trait combos. until now there were 15 combinations (6*5/2), now there'll be 28 (8*7/2). do you think every combo will have at least 1 civ? (and 3 combos have 2 civs). it would mean redistributing more than just england.

	22-10-2003 02:27									#93
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf speaking of trait combos. until now there were 15 combinations (6*5/2), now there'll be 28 (8*7/2). do you think every combo will have at least 1 civ? (and 3 combos have 2 civs). it would mean redistributing more than just england.

hi ,

well lets hope we see a couple civ's with unique trait combos like the US

have a nice day

	22-10-2003 02:31									#94
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you don't need to hope for that. there wont be any 3-trait-civs and there definetly won't be any wierd 9th trait for the US...

	22-10-2003 02:42									#95
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I wonder which combos will get repeated?

I'm willing to bet Agricultural-Industrious, Religious-Militaristic and Religious-Scientific.

That would, to me, suggest America and China, Aztecs and Celts, and Babylon and Maya, but seeing as how the Hittites are classified as Expanionist and Commercial, I frankly don't know what to expect.

	22-10-2003 02:47									#96
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf you don't need to hope for that. there wont be any 3-trait-civs and there definetly won't be any wierd 9th trait for the US...

hi ,

huh at present the US only has two traits , ....

but they have a unique combo that no-one else has , .....

that was the point , to see acouple civs with combos that no-one else has , .....

have a nice day

	22-10-2003 03:29									#97
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sorry, i read wrong... instead of "unique trait combo" i saw "unique trait" ... sorry

	22-10-2003 06:01									#98
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Judging by the known combos, don't expect many changes.

My guess is:

Mil, Sci: Germany
Mil, Rel: Aztecs, Japan
Mil, Agr: Mayans, Celts (the civs for this trait was the hardest to pick, and yet I put 2 civs here)
Mil, Ind: Ottomans (I replaced Sci with Mil to leave Persia where it was)
Mil, Com: Rome
Mil, Sea: Vikings (or Scandanavians if you have to call them it. Very much a Seafaring civ)
Mil, Exp: Mongols, Zulu
Sci, Rel: Babylon
Sci, Agr: Sumeria (The desert irrigation bonus reminded me of Sumeria)
Sci, Ind: Persia
Sci, Com: Greece
Sci, Sea: Byzantine (confirmed)
Sci, Exp: Russia
Rel, Agr: Iroquois (So the Arabs can be exp, I think it is more fitting anyway).
Rel, Ind: Egypt
Rel, Com: India
Rel, Sea: Spain (Spanish Armada, etc)
Rel, Exp: Arabs
Agr, Ind: China (I noticed Agr, Ind was open and I couldn't resist the chance to put them here)
Agr, Com: Korea (I honestly don't know much about Korea, but I left Greece in Sci, Com, so I moved the Koreans here)
Agr, Sea: Netherlands (confirmed)
Agr, Exp: Inca (confirmed)
Ind, Com: France
Ind, Sea: Carthage (someone mentioned a good reason. I don't know why Carthage is Ind, but they are definately are Sea, and all other Seafaring traits are taken)
Ind, Exp: America
Com, Sea: England (confirmed)
Com, Exp: Hittites (confirmed)
Sea, Exp: Portugal (confirmed)

	22-10-2003 06:24									#99
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I've read somewhere the Babylonians are now agricultural. My money is on the Maya for Scientific Religious

	22-10-2003 07:59									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I've read somewhere the Babylonians are now agricultural. My money is on the Maya for Scientific Religious

Why Scientific?

	22-10-2003 08:01									#101
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Sorry to dig up an old issue, but…

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Mine change all the time. Its called the Editor.

I didn't mean what the traits do, or who has which trait, but rather the fact that traits are always pre-assigned before you start playing.
Or do you mean changing traits mid-game with the editor? I was unaware that was possible (if it is).

quote: I don't think jumping down peoples throat because they discuss things they would like to see improved in the game is necessarily the way to go. If no one ever commented about things they would like changed or bugs they found in the game it probably wouldn't have been patched and expanded like it has.

I certainly didn't mean to be harsh, and I apologize if I was, but perhaps you can see my criticism as another part of the feedback process. Not all ideas are created equal, not all fit with the spirt of the game. I was attempting to argue that civ is about gameplay and not about historical simulation, and therefore changes based purely on history would not fit with the sprit of civ.

Yes if no one complained perhaps we would not have good changes, but if you add every idea you simply end up with an incoherent mess. Criticism of an idea is a necessary part of the implementation process.

	22-10-2003 08:11									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I've read somewhere the Babylonians are now agricultural. My money is on the Maya for Scientific Religious

That's been a confirmed mistake by the website. I think they were thinking of Sumeria (or just plain mistaken)

	22-10-2003 09:43									#103
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Why Scientific?

hi ,

well they where forward for the time , they invented things we as people are still trying to understand till this day , .....

have a nice day

	22-10-2003 15:02									#104
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Why Scientific?

They had a developed astronomy and a developed mathematics. Some of these advances still puzzle our scientists today.

	22-10-2003 15:23									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV That's been a confirmed mistake by the website. I think they were thinking of Sumeria (or just plain mistaken)

Or maybe things changed...

	22-10-2003 17:02									#106
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Last official word was that Babylon's traits have not changed. Mere's post on the subject:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...091#post2394091

	22-10-2003 17:15									#107
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what are the starting techs for the 2 new traits?

agricultural : pottery (faster growth)?
seafaring : bronze working (because colossus also has increased commerce)?

	22-10-2003 20:36									#108
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Seafaring starts with Alphabet (the Curragh scout ship comes with Alphabet)

Pottery is right for Agricultural, though

	22-10-2003 23:06									#109
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Actually, the starting techs cannot be neatly tied to a specific trait any more because there are now eight traits and only seven tier one techs. Thus, there will be some overlap.

For instance, Commercial gives you alphabet, and Seafaring gives you Alphabet, so a Seafaring/Commercial Civ needs to get some other tech as well.

	22-10-2003 23:07									#110
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Oh, and Sumer definitely will be starting with The Wheel, or else Firaxis will have some explaining to do.

	23-10-2003 04:25									#111
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Perhaps one traight starts with a level 2 tech?

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Actually, the starting techs cannot be neatly tied to a specific trait any more because there are now eight traits and only seven tier one techs. Thus, there will be some overlap. For instance, Commercial gives you alphabet, and Seafaring gives you Alphabet, so a Seafaring/Commercial Civ needs to get some other tech as well.

	23-10-2003 04:38									#112
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Can we come up with another level one tech?

	23-10-2003 05:44									#113
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Maybe starting techs could be assigned on an individual basis for each civ instead of being linked to civ traits.

	23-10-2003 05:56									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Xorbon Maybe starting techs could be assigned on an individual basis for each civ instead of being linked to civ traits.

I thought they were.

	23-10-2003 06:24									#115
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They are. Look in the editor. Traits actually give no techs.

	23-10-2003 06:34									#116
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That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure, they could have changed it with Conquests.

	23-10-2003 08:03									#117
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Although traits don't technicaly determine traits, in the original game all Exp civs start with Pottery, all Ind civs start with Masonry, all sci civs start with BW, all rel civs start with CB, all com civs start with Alphabet, and all mil civs start with WC (with the exception of Japan, which gets the Wheel)

So far, in conquests: All the Seafaring civs have Alphabet. It is likely that the English (Commercial, Seafaring) will keep their old techs (Alphabet, Pottery). The 2 mentioned Agricultural civs (Netherlands, Inca) have Pottery. Since the Inca are Agr, Exp, they have Masonry as well as Pottery (since both Exp and Agr probably give you Pottery).

	25-10-2003 09:32									#118
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I know that traits don't directly determine what tech(s) a civ gets. I've seen the editor before. What I meant was, the designers could choose techs for each civ without taking into account that civ's traits. In other words, starting techs could be independent of civ traits.

I can't see them doing that though, since that would devalue the point of having distinct traits...wouldn't it?

	25-10-2003 10:51									#119
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Do you think we can expect a Civ Profile on Austria? ;D

-Ben

	26-10-2003 00:20									#120
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My guess is probably not