11-10-2003 10:05									#1
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This could possibly be unbalancing, but it might be interesting to include - Industries. The production and trade of certain goods were practically essential for the development of various civilizations. Since city improvements can be set to require certain resources (even luxuries), how about adding improvements and wonders that require certain luxuries to sort of simulate the usage and processing of luxury resources?

For example:
Silk Weaver : Requires Silk to be within radius; gives +50% Luxuries and +50% tax output
Jeweler : Requires Gems to be within radius; gives +50% Luxuries and +50% tax output
The Silk Road : Great Wonder; Requires Silk and at least 5 markets within your empire; gives +1 trade bonus to all trade-producing tiles and 2 advances (to simulate the exchange of ideas resulting from the Silk Road)

	11-10-2003 11:08									#2
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It is possible that silk would become to important. But it sounds like interesting ideas.

	11-10-2003 11:32									#3
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Yeah, but thats just an example. There could be many different industries for the different luxuries... right? Then they would be equally important.

	11-10-2003 11:34									#4
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Maybe...

It sounds like something worth working with...

	13-10-2003 01:25									#5
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I've done that in my mod. I've created several small wonders for various resources, then set the "Required Resource Must Be Within City Radius" flag. It works well. I'm hoping though that they will finally move that flag over to the regular buildings. That would allow, for instance, Quarries in every city that has a Stone resource, which boosts shield production by 25%.

PS You have to be careful though that you don't make them to powerful. The example you've given strikes me as a bit to much.

	16-10-2003 18:50									#6
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Instead having industries give bonus percentages, you find a way to make them specialists (like entertainers, taxmen, and scientists) and let them give a flat number of points.

Like

Silk-weaver : +2 gold per turn, +1 Luxury; requires Silk

Jeweler : +3 Gold per turn, Requires gemstones

And so Forth ...

	16-10-2003 20:32									#7
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I just hope we can actually utilize more than eight luxuries with Conquests but I don't see that happening.

	16-10-2003 21:08									#8
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I just hope we can actually utilize more than eight luxuries with Conquests but I don't see that happening.

Well you can already have more than 8 luxuries now, as of PTW. Before that, it would crash the game. Even though there's no further happiness effect after 8, you still have a trade item you can use.

Frankly, I think having more than what we have now would make the game to easy. In my mod, I've tried to add more unhappiness, by adding it to certain improvements etc. I find it's more interesting if everyone isn't ecstatic all the time, and with my cities always celebrating WLTK day.

	17-10-2003 05:31									#9
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Could have Cotton producing Cloth factories,
these were the first industries which started in 18th century Britain.

These ideas could be added to the CTP2 source code project, the source is being released.

I might try something similar in the game i'm writing.

	17-10-2003 06:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well you can already have more than 8 luxuries now, as of PTW. Before that, it would crash the game. Even though there's no further happiness effect after 8, you still have a trade item you can use.

Exactly. You can ONLY HAVE 8 LUXURIES. Anything over 8 is just fluff and makes no one happy.

I think it would be an interesting twist to make a scenario where it was necessarily to acquire many different luxuries forcing civs to make trade pacts and seriously consider the disadvantages of prolonged wars.

	19-10-2003 11:16									#11
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You can only have 8 luxuries, but they don't all have to be the same luxuries. In HUGE map 24 civ games, collecting eight may well be impossible unless there are a few "spares" lying around. Besides, the way luxuries are distributed allows a form of "realistic" geographic control over the resource in question (cocoa is limited to one continent rather than being lightly sprinkled over the surface of the planet).

I've been busy adding new wonders that can only be built when certain resources are in the neighborhood. Such as the "famous winery" small wonder that any city with wine in its area can build, the "famous rum distillary" that goes with the sugar resource, and the "East India company" major wonder that anyone with access to tea and tobacco can build.

	21-10-2003 09:40									#12
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OK, based on what I've read of the 'Designer Diaries' for C3:C, I think there will be a lot more options available for luxuries both in Scenarios and the 'Epic Game'!
For instance: luxury, bonus and strategic resources, within a city's radius, can now be used to build improvements that build so-called 'treasure' units every X-turns. These can be sent to your capital for an influx of gold! In addition, you could also build improvements, dependant on luxuries, which directly increase happiness, commerce and/or production-as suggested by Azeem! Better yet, now that Imrpovements and Small Wonders can become Obsolete, you can have the same resources being vital for a different improvement/Wonder in each new age!!
So, as you can see, even if we don't get more than 8 luxuries having a direct happiness effect on our empire, there will be plenty of new opportunities for using them-so that they don't simply become 'fluff' !!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	21-10-2003 10:52									#13
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As a supplement to luxuries you could tag something as a resource and set that resource as a prerequisite for an improvement.

For example you could set gold as a resource and allow an improvement (say a "Jeweller") which may be built only if you have gold. The racket here is that if you have no gold you could import some for 20 turns, build jewellers everywhere and import no more gold. Meanwhile the poor AI will gladly waste money importing gold even if it has a Jeweller in every city.

	24-10-2003 08:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker OK, based on what I've read of the 'Designer Diaries' for C3:C, I think there will be a lot more options available for luxuries both in Scenarios and the 'Epic Game'! For instance: luxury, bonus and strategic resources, within a city's radius, can now be used to build improvements that build so-called 'treasure' units every X-turns. These can be sent to your capital for an influx of gold! In addition, you could also build improvements, dependant on luxuries, which directly increase happiness, commerce and/or production-as suggested by Azeem! Better yet, now that Imrpovements and Small Wonders can become Obsolete, you can have the same resources being vital for a different improvement/Wonder in each new age!! So, as you can see, even if we don't get more than 8 luxuries having a direct happiness effect on our empire, there will be plenty of new opportunities for using them-so that they don't simply become 'fluff' !!! Yours, Aussie_Lurker.

So the game will now (er, then) recognize bonus resources for the purpose of building resource-dependent improvements?

Eeeeexcellent.

	24-10-2003 09:08									#15
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Uuhm, don't quote me on the bonus resource issue-'cause I'm not 100% certain of that one (though gems, gold and silver are 3 of the resources which can be used to build these 'treasure units' in Age of Discovery). What I AM certain of, though, is that improvements can now be given the 'must have resource in City Radius Flag' which, as you've said MM, is Eeexcelleeent!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	26-10-2003 01:49									#16
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Ooooh, that is nice.

One improvement I tried to make early on was an "oil refinery", which would boost production, but only if there was an oil resource in the city radius. I had to make it a minor wonder because there was no way in heck I was going to let every city build it.

	26-10-2003 20:44									#17
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Uuhm, don't quote me on the bonus resource issue-'cause I'm not 100% certain of that one (though gems, gold and silver are 3 of the resources which can be used to build these 'treasure units' in Age of Discovery). What I AM certain of, though, is that improvements can now be given the 'must have resource in City Radius Flag' which, as you've said MM, is Eeexcelleeent!!!

That would be nice, I had all sorts of ideas to introduce strategic needs to the game but couldn't due to the limited editor abilities.

	29-10-2003 00:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Uuhm, don't quote me on the bonus resource issue-'cause I'm not 100% certain of that one (though gems, gold and silver are 3 of the resources which can be used to build these 'treasure units' in Age of Discovery).

I doubt it very much. When Civ first came out, you could select a bonus resource as a requirement, but it never worked right, so they dropped it. I suspect that those you mentioned have been changed to strategic just for that particular scenario.

quote: What I AM certain of, though, is that improvements can now be given the 'must have resource in City Radius Flag' which, as you've said MM, is Eeexcelleeent!!!

I'm very pleased to hear that, it's been on my wish list for a long time. I've brought it up on the forums a number of times now. Finally someone at Firaxis is listening to me!

Now I'm only hoping that that the city screen has a scrolling resource window, so I don't end up with all those icons sprawling across the top. It looks like crap!

	30-10-2003 03:59									#19
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will the AI also build those improvements. Say you make an improvement called "war factory" that will build a tank every 3 turns if there's a source of iron (or oil, or whatever) in it's radius. Will the AI build it in times of war, or will it prefer just building units and not looking at the free unit bonus that the improvement grants?

	30-10-2003 04:06									#20
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That's an EXCELLENT question, Saint Marcus, and one which I hope a rep of Firaxis or Breakaway Games will answer for all of us !!!

	30-10-2003 10:42									#21
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Actually, I plan to give all the improvements that produce units every X turns a production bonus as well-partly to ensure that the AI builds it, but also to reflect, in an abstract fashion, the contribution these improvements can make to the peacetime economy! Also, isn't 1 tank/3 turns a LITTLE excessive? more like every 10 TURNS!!!
Also, giving them an industrial/militaristic tag might also help influence which AI civs build them most often!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	31-10-2003 04:29									#22
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Maybe there will be AI check boxes that tell the AI how to emphasize the improvement, like there are for units.

	31-10-2003 13:39									#23
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There already are -- I'm not sure how well the AI uses them, though.

	31-10-2003 23:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk There already are -- I'm not sure how well the AI uses them, though.

If your referring to the flags on the Civilizations page, not very well. I tried checking off the one to make them build Artillery uniits more often, and it didn't make any difference that I could see.

	01-11-2003 00:28									#25
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the flags make little to no difference.

	04-11-2003 07:05									#26
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I really like this idea. Maybe even make some of them GW's (to represent a country becoming a world leader in an industry).