13-10-2003 06:23									#1
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Well I usually like to hold these kinds of things off till later, but I am bored and its raining out, so here goes. I've been working on a scenario for awhile now, and its nearing playtest state. Its still 'in a work' as they say.

I had a name for this, but another apolytoner has chosen the exact same name for his own scenario, unaware of my project. Sadly I will have to go with something else as I was beaten to the punch with making the name public.

Anyway, the scenario is WWII, for play as the Germans only. Big big map, starting time is July 1943. Kursk has just failed, the Soviets are about to mount a huge offensive taking most of the Ukraine, and the Allies have touched down in Sicily.

6 Civs:

• Soviets (red)
  
• Americans (green) [Iceland only at start]
  
• British (orange)
  
• Finns (white)
  
• Italians (green)
  
• Strategic Bomber Command (orange)
  
• Barbarian Neutrals (olive)
  

You are on the defensive here with the Allies pushing in on you at every turn. I will have the scenario end in the fall of 1945 if you manage to last that long. Wonders counting as objecties. Name of the game is to militarily survive ovewhelming odds. It is armour heavy, with each civ having a healthy set of units to fight with.

I have separated the Americans and British for fun, and for unit variety. I have separated the Bombers from the 2 Allied civs so that they do not cover their land units and prevent you r attacks by land (as you'll probably run out of planes). The Amis and Brits have fighters, but they will have to go back to their cities during turns.




The game is set up such that it gets tougher to maintain hapiness in occupied territories when it becomes clear you are losing the war. Troops will be spread thin all over, so only a cunning general will be able to play a daring fighting retreat, buying time.

The game starts with the debacle at Kursk, its clear the big plans for the summer are a flop, and you've got a majour disaster on your hands with the Soviet counter-offensive.





Your worthless Italian Allies will soon giveway to hoardes of American troops who will make their way north toward Germany.




There are a few fun little miniplots thrown in courtesy of Henrik and its shaping up nicely. Dont ask for an eta. Maybe I can get some neat ideas talking here, so if you have anything you'd like to add feel free to comment. Ask some questions if you'd like.

	13-10-2003 08:01									#2
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Where have I heard about this before....

Neutrals! agh neutrals! Neutrals bad!

Oh and you made the Italians and Americans the same color? That's kinda hard to differentiate. Why not make the italians a lighter green?

	13-10-2003 16:34									#3
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nice map, nice graphics, love the idea can't wait..

	13-10-2003 16:54									#4
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Make the Americans Blue.

	13-10-2003 18:11									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh I had a name for this, but another apolytoner has chosen the exact same name for his own scenario, unaware of my project. Sadly I will have to go with something else as I was beaten to the punch with making the name public.

Let me guess:Götterdämmerung?


How about a download link?

	13-10-2003 18:18									#6
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No cities in Africa?

True, the DAK had been driven off during your time period, but i think that the more cities an AI, that is supposed to be ultra aggressive, has, the merrier.

	13-10-2003 18:30									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos No cities in Africa?

exactly what I was going to ask about in this message :P

	13-10-2003 20:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Willhelm II Make the Americans Blue.

I had this same idea today at work.

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos No cities in Africa? True, the DAK had been driven off during your time period, but i think that the more cities an AI, that is supposed to be ultra aggressive, has, the merrier.

Sure, that rule would apply if it were not on the other side of the Med. Their is no way that units produced there would ever make it onto ships and cross the med for a landing. Of course, all Italian plans for empire are donefor, and you should be hoping to merely stall for time by holding the Ami's up in the mountains and hills of Italy. The top map represents a full compliment of cities in the game, so I had to stop somewhere. This was a hard decision to make, but it is so.

	13-10-2003 21:21									#9
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Looking forward to this FMK

On the cities: should you not give the British either Gibraltar or Alexandria as a naval base, or perhaps Tripoli as a staging point for the Sicily landings?

BTW, Exeter is a fairly big town; I don't think it's half the size of Plymouth.

	13-10-2003 21:26									#10
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True, but at the same time you wouldn't want a city that appears to be an airbase to be too large, would you.

My suggestion would be to rename it to something else if you want to keep a degree of realism there. I'm sure there's an RAF something or other down that way.

	13-10-2003 21:41									#11
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fairline, get on AIM... 'ThoughtPolice78'

	13-10-2003 21:43									#12
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That Exeter, is Exeter AFB, or RAF Exeter... I went by Nemo's Blitz to see what the RAF had for names of their fields... The city belongs to Strategic Bomber Command, note the blue citysize box as opposed to the British's orange.

	13-10-2003 21:47									#13
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FMK...Have you maxed out the cities?

The map looks sparse in areas...

	13-10-2003 21:48									#14
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yup cities are maxed. =/ what areas do you feel are sparse?

	13-10-2003 22:21									#15
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Sparse!!

On the contrary!

I say remove a couple of cities from the Spaniards and Irish(they are going to stay out of the war anyway-negotiations are disallowed, yes?) and build some in Russia and Africa.

Last edited by Palaiologos on 13-10-2003 at 22:30

	13-10-2003 22:28									#16
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Yep, I would take some of those neutral cities and allocat them to North Russia or Africa...

	14-10-2003 02:38									#17
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FMK is back!!! Just another great idea!

There is no way to implement Vichy France in the scenario?

	14-10-2003 03:34									#18
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Vichy France(its European france part) was seized by the Germans in response to the allied landings in 1943.

So it is already in German hands when the scenario kicks off.

	14-10-2003 05:20									#19
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FMK: do you have certain events for the D-Day or do the AI launch this automatically?
I really like the map, can't wait to get my hands on it

	14-10-2003 06:08									#20
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Thanks for the info, Palaiologos

Anyway...it's looking great!!!

	15-10-2003 15:59									#21
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FMK, the Americans used Algiers as a major staging base as well, so you may want to give them that city as a springboard into the Med.

	15-10-2003 18:39									#22
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The scen looks great.

I can't wait to kick the Soviets and Allies back to where they came from!

	15-10-2003 19:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Case FMK, the Americans used Algiers as a major staging base as well, so you may want to give them that city as a springboard into the Med.

Hi Nick, The thing is that at the scenario's start, the Ami's and Brits are on Sicily. That screenshot there is an actual pic of their invasion. Events guarentee that they will not be kicked off by the Italians. By the time you declare war on the Italians and move in to hold off the Allies, You shouldn't be in a position to do anymore than stall on that front. Hopefully the player will not have enough units to advance there.

So eventswise, the Allies should be ok, they dont need a base for Italy.

	15-10-2003 19:50									#24
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FMK:

Is it possible to reverse the fortunes of war in this one?

How heavily are the odds stacked?

	15-10-2003 21:19									#25
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No matter the odds, the Panzers will still go forward for one last time!

	15-10-2003 23:02									#26
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That's not a pre-existing map is it? Could I have it by any chance? To add to my map collection... and to be added to my website?

	15-10-2003 23:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling FMK: Is it possible to reverse the fortunes of war in this one? How heavily are the odds stacked?

Hi Curt,
Probably not.
Very much so.


Your best moments will be killing stacks of enemies before you decide you should probably retreat.

quote: Originally posted by Mercator That's not a pre-existing map is it? Could I have it by any chance? To add to my map collection... and to be added to my website?

Hi Jorrit. The majority of the map has been seen before in Henrik's "de Historibus Europae", however, in that incarnation the map went only to Kiev in the west. I had an even wider version that gave the americans 6-7 cities on scaled down east coast on the far left of the map. That was when this very map was to be used for Lebensraum v2. So if you want to, you should take Henrik's and this one (which I still call his as I only modified it).
In short, sure. how would you like it? plain grassland? I have some odities such as one terrain under the rivers...
whats your email?

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Let me guess:Götterdämmerung?

Looks like I forgot the ö and ä when I made these, but yeah, thats the one.

Which do you guys prefer for a Title.gif?

	16-10-2003 00:00									#28
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heres the other one.

Again, let's have your preferences please.

Attachment: xtitle2.gif
This has been downloaded 182 time(s).

	16-10-2003 00:08									#29
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remember, you have to make the Finnish Units 99 in everything, move rate, attack and defense....

	16-10-2003 01:48									#30
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They are both excellent title gifs and add a quite poetic tone i think.
Isn't there as possibility to make a colaze(sp?-combination?).Curt?anybody?

You know to show the contrast of the despair in defeat and that life still continues after the cruelties of war...