13-10-2003 19:40									#1
	Geneva Initiative: new peace plan? Put an end to popups!

Apparently, there is an unofficial peace plan called the Geneva Initiative. It was written by Shahar Party leader Yossi Beilin and former Palestinian Authority minister Yasser Abed Rabbo as well as other Israeli and Palestinian thinkers in a meeting in Jordan.

Here are the details:
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The agreement, he said, draws borders similar to those in 1967, with an additional 2.5 percent of territory, in order to include settlements close to the Green Line such as the Gush Etzion bloc. It will, however, exclude large settlements like Ariel further outside the line. People in those communities will have to be resettled back into Israel, he said.

Palestinians will relinquish their claim to a right of return into Israel, and compensation will be made to refugees through an an international foundation with the participation of Israel, Mitzna said.

The Palestinians will fight terrorism and end the violence. The new state will be a demilitarized one, with a strong police force but no heavy weapons, he said.

Jerusalem would be divided with Arab neighborhoods under PA sovereignty and Jewish neighborhoods under Israeli authority, Mitzna said.

The Old City would be open, without borders, but with a similar arrangement, with the Jewish Quarter including the Western Wall under Israeli sovereignty and the Muslim Quarter and the Temple Mount under the PA.

There would also be an international force in the Temple Mount area to monitor the situation, Mitzna said.
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...d=1066025338369

Will this plan gain momentum if the Road Map gets trashed?

	13-10-2003 19:48									#2
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I can live with this plan. I do not like the removal of Ariel, though.

Another interesting point is the fact that it wasn't carried by the legitimate government of Israel, and therefore carries no weight whatsoever.

	13-10-2003 20:00									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Another interesting point is the fact that it wasn't carried by the legitimate government of Israel, and therefore carries no weight whatsoever.

True, it has no legal weight right now. However, it may gain momentum in the future, if the Road Map continues to stumble.

	13-10-2003 20:03									#4
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"continues to stumble"? the roadmap is dead. Abu-Mazen is gone.

	13-10-2003 20:23									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel "continues to stumble"? the roadmap is dead. Abu-Mazen is gone.

And it looks like Qorei will soon be gone also.

And, how would Israelis feel about an international force to monitor the Temple Mount that this Geneva Plan seems to call for?

	13-10-2003 20:35									#6
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Any plan that doesn't include the destruction of Isreal will never be supported by the Pal fringe groups.

	13-10-2003 21:31									#7
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They're doomed until they kill each other .

I have ceased to care, both sides are as bad as each other, imo they need to have their heads banged together, or locked in a rubber room for a fortnight.

Still, I hope it brings peace, but I doubt it.

	13-10-2003 21:52									#8
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quote: They're doomed until they kill each other

So wouldn't it be better if only ONE side died, then, rather than both? And since there is no way for the Palestinians to destroy Israel, but it is possible for Israel to destroy Palestine, that we should support Israel (because that will result in the best possible solution)?

	13-10-2003 22:07									#9
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I dont think any plan will work. There is so much hatered amoung both parties. I dont see why they cant just have the whole area under one government, but I know that they hate each other too much for that too work.

	13-10-2003 22:20									#10
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I have a better plan. Bulldoze the arabs across Jordan and move the security fence there. Fool proof and Israel will win the demographic race.

	13-10-2003 22:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by rah Any plan that doesn't include the destruction of Isreal will never be supported by the Pal fringe groups.

Likewise, any plan that does not include the deportation of palestines will never be supported by the isreali fringe groups.

	13-10-2003 22:34									#12
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To be fair the Israeli fringe groups are very small while the Palestinian fringe groups practically run the show.

	13-10-2003 22:45									#13
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The outlines of a deal, with pretty good detail, are pretty clear. It has been for a couple of years, and this deal just restates the parameters. So what is the value of this peace plan?

This is incredibly frustrating. Both the Israelis and Palestinians have no right to continue to foist this problem on the rest of the world.

	13-10-2003 22:50									#14
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Well, two of the Palestinian signatories on this agreement already announced that they didnt really give up on the right of return and that they wont dismantle the terrorist organizations...

	13-10-2003 23:02									#15
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link, Eli?

	13-10-2003 23:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin To be fair the Israeli fringe groups are very small while the Palestinian fringe groups practically run the show.

Unfortunately the Israeli fringe groups control the government.

quote: Indeed, the thinking in the Israeli Government seems to be more along the lines expressed by one minister, Ehud Olmert, a former mayor of Jerusalem, last week. He said that an agreement with Palestinians was "impossible" and that "we are much closer to a unilateral process that will create irreversible facts".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3187008.stm

	13-10-2003 23:10									#17
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quote: Unfortunately the Israeli fringe groups control the government.

If Israeli fringe groups would control the government, the arab world would be a pile of dust.

	13-10-2003 23:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 Unfortunately the Israeli fringe groups control the government.

Not at all. The fringe groups want to evict all of the Palestinians and send them to Jordan. The current Israeli government simply believes, in my opinion rightly, that Arafat understands nothing but force and that Israel needs to speak in Arafats language.

	14-10-2003 00:23									#19
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quote: The agreement, he said, draws borders similar to those in 1967, with an additional 2.5 percent of territory, in order to include settlements close to the Green Line such as the Gush Etzion bloc.

That's like allowing the Palestinians to continue with a small amount of terrorism. If Israel is allowed to keep any settlements, they'll just keep do what they've been doing up to now and grab all they can before the peace plan starts to take effect and the borders are set in stone.

Israel should also stop recieving insane amounts of military aid from Uncle Sam, it just encourages them to keep the conflict going.

	14-10-2003 00:27									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin To be fair the Israeli fringe groups are very small while the Palestinian fringe groups practically run the show.

That's because Isrealis run the place.

	14-10-2003 00:49									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman That's like allowing the Palestinians to continue with a small amount of terrorism. If Israel is allowed to keep any settlements, they'll just keep do what they've been doing up to now and grab all they can before the peace plan starts to take effect and the borders are set in stone. Israel should also stop recieving insane amounts of military aid from Uncle Sam, it just encourages them to keep the conflict going.

what will encourage them to continue w/ their terrorism is the fact that there are jews still living w/in gunshot range of them.

	14-10-2003 01:24									#22
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Israel will never except it, even if the Palestinians would.

	14-10-2003 02:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel link, Eli?

One of them said this today on Channel Two on the 18:00 News. And the other somewhere yesterday, go search through the Walla archive.

	14-10-2003 03:21									#24
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The only plan that I've seen presented that is likely to work is to kill everyone in the country over the age of 5, pave Lebanon, and start over. Given that that really isn't very acceptable, I don't see the violence ending in the near future, no matter what you do.

	14-10-2003 03:23									#25
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If Israel wanted the Palestinians dead, there wouldn't be any Palestinians

	14-10-2003 03:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Israel will never except it, even if the Palestinians would.

You have that backwards. This is essentially the Clinton peace plan with the Israelis accepted and which Arafat sunk.

	14-10-2003 03:54									#27
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Sorry to bring this up again, but there's only one man to settle this situation.

Saddam Hussein, if given a mandate to enforce a peace settlement, then by golly he would! Even if it involves the mass burial of hundreds of Israelis and Palestinians.

Strong centralised authority is what we need. Vote Saddam!

	14-10-2003 03:57									#28
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that's why there's such a high bounty on him

	14-10-2003 03:58									#29
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I think we should pay Saddam £30 million dollars to become our roving Dictator/fixer. He could travel to Afghanistan, Korea, the OT and even Corsica.

He'd love it! We'd love it! Bring back Saddam!

	14-10-2003 03:59									#30
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There won't be peace in the middle east unless Orthodox Jews (West Bank setlers and Likud) and conservative Muslims (Hamas, Arafat's thugs, etc.) quit wanting each others blood. The setlers need to get out of Palestine, I don't give a sh!t if they think the land was given to them by some fake god 3,500 years ago.