13-10-2003 22:47									#1
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It seems the last reminents of the Nazi regime are dieing off. When the people who lived through the Nazi's war crimes die will we begin to forget the horrors they commited?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3187566.stm

	13-10-2003 23:01									#2
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Hopefully not.

	13-10-2003 23:12									#3
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Not our generation, but probably sometime in the next one-two centuries they'll matter even less to everyday people....

	13-10-2003 23:25									#4
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Well there are some crazy people in the world that claim the Holocost never happened.

	14-10-2003 07:14									#5
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Most likely..when is the last time anyone cared a hoot about Luois XIV's campaing in the Palatine in the 1680's IIRC, which was noted in its time for the cruelty and horros shown to the local population (and this is back when people got cut up for public spectacle!)?

I think a better analogy though would be the Mongols..everyone will remember from history class how bad and nasty the Nazi's were, but the memories will have as much impact as those of the Mongol conquests.

	14-10-2003 07:18									#6
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History will always remember the Holocaust...though in a historic rather than emotional way

EDIT: Or, see GePap's reply

	14-10-2003 19:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I think a better analogy though would be the Mongols..everyone will remember from history class how bad and nasty the Nazi's were, but the memories will have as much impact as those of the Mongol conquests.

That is a true but unfortunate reality.

Younger generations will never understand what my grandparent's generation fought against....and just how truly heroic they were.

They accomplished more heroically, scientifically, socially, and historically than any other generation in the 20th century, probably the 19th as well.

	14-10-2003 19:36									#8
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"Let my people go!"

	14-10-2003 21:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge They accomplished more heroically, scientifically, socially, and historically than any other generation in the 20th century, probably the 19th as well.

I don't know about that.

	14-10-2003 22:04									#10
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I didn't know that Social Security performed cremations...

	15-10-2003 06:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge That is a true but unfortunate reality. Younger generations will never understand what my grandparent's generation fought against....and just how truly heroic they were.

Heroic?

I don;t think a generation can be heoric. Million of people did what tey were told to do with diligence..some individuals did things heroically, but otherwise....

Those few humans that traveled hundread of miles on foot through terrible climates chasing prey animals.. that is just simply harder..and probalby more heroic.

Many generations beofre them lived through cataclismic events of unimaginable horrors greater than those that generation saw. There were at least 2 billion people when WW2 begun, and 60 million dead later, there were still 2 billion people: some areas saw great destruction, like Eastern Europe, and some saw none, like the US...

Compare that to some poor peasant that sees 50% of the local pop, and the pop. of all places aorund die off in just a few years, I mean, imagine the horror. It goes well beyond the modern experience, at least for people of the rich countries.

NO, generations aren't heroic.

	15-10-2003 07:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Heroic?

Absolutely... I'd call fighting for the freedom of the world pretty damned heroic. Imagine being among the first invaders at Normandy, knowing that the odds are that you and/or most of the people around you will soon be facing certain death... but you still fight to your last breath, because of what it will mean for future generations. That my friend is heroism.

quote: Originally posted by GePap Those few humans that traveled hundread of miles on foot through terrible climates chasing prey animals.. that is just simply harder..and probalby more heroic.

Possibly, but those were completely different times, I'm assuming that you are talking about the onset of civilization? You can't hardly compare the two.

quote: Originally posted by GePap Compare that to some poor peasant that sees 50% of the local pop, and the pop. of all places aorund die off in just a few years, I mean, imagine the horror. It goes well beyond the modern experience, at least for people of the rich countries.

Ever heard of Hiroshima?

quote: Originally posted by GePap NO, generations aren't heroic.

I respectfully disagree.

	15-10-2003 07:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge Absolutely... I'd call fighting for the freedom of the world pretty damned heroic. Imagine being among the first invaders at Normandy, knowing that the odds are that you and/or most of the people around you will soon be facing certain death... but you still fight to your last breath, because of what it will mean for future generations. That my friend is heroism.

And so was fanatically fighting to the lastr man in the name of the Emperor and Bushido on some remote Jungle island, and the battles and carnage of the Eastern front humble almost everything in the west. 250,000 men attacked a limited front on June 6. Over 1 Million men attacked on a 500 MIle front at the end of June, called Bagration. IN fact the vast majority of the human baings that died between 1939 and 1945 dide in fights bnetween two dictatorships of different sorts. Though people in the US forget this simple irrefutable fact.

quote: Possibly, but those were completely different times, I'm assuming that you are talking about the onset of civilization? You can't hardly compare the two.

Why? Two side of the Human experience.

quote: Ever heard of Hiroshima?

Or Tokyo, March 1945? What about Baghdad in the 1280's, were the MOngols put 80,000 people to the sword and burned down the city, or what about eery other city razed after defense was put up. MOre people, more dead. Simple principle....Oh, and it was the bad guys that got Hiroshima, not the "heroic" generation.

quote: I respectfully disagree.

Go ahead, your perogative.

	15-10-2003 07:16									#14
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GePap,

I fear that you are arguing just for the sake of argument,

...not my style.

...I never said that it was just the Americans that were heroic.

...in addition if you read my original post, you would see that I said "of the 20th century and probably the 19th."

	15-10-2003 07:21									#15
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Actually, the whole "greatest generation" monicker ukrs me. Soldiers in WW2 were no braver than soldiers through countless campaigns. The principle of scale, which is what separates WW2 from most other wars, is an end result of socio-ecnomic factors, and has no moral significance. And as brutish as the Nazi's were, they sadly rank among, and not far above, the countless cruel conqerors of the world that history has seen: again, only scale comes. And as always, most people DID NOT die from freedom, but for pride and nationalism and all the other base emotins that usually droive most young men to their deaths under the commands of older men.

	15-10-2003 07:23									#16
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge ...in addition if you read my original post, you would see that I said "of the 20th century and probably the 19th."

The generation of your great-grandparents did more in terms of being the group that cuased historical change..after all, they fought WW1 and made the decisions of WW2...them and a few of your great-great grandparents generation.

	15-10-2003 07:25									#17
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What happened is only remembered the way it is because Germany lost the war.

There's a chilling thought for you.

	15-10-2003 07:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Actually, the whole "greatest generation" monicker ukrs me. Soldiers in WW2 were no braver than soldiers through countless campaigns. The principle of scale, which is what separates WW2 from most other wars, is an end result of socio-ecnomic factors, and has no moral significance. And as brutish as the Nazi's were, they sadly rank among, and not far above, the countless cruel conqerors of the world that history has seen: again, only scale comes. And as always, most people DID NOT die from freedom, but for pride and nationalism and all the other base emotins that usually droive most young men to their deaths under the commands of older men.

Some good points...

	15-10-2003 07:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The generation of your great-grandparents did more in terms of being the group that cuased historical change..after all, they fought WW1 and made the decisions of WW2...them and a few of your great-great grandparents generation.

Some truth here. WW1 may have started the car, but the WW2 generation was forced to park it.

If that makes any sense

	15-10-2003 07:38									#20
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To me what matters most is the decisions taken by people in a generation, not whether when the people above them in the social hierarchy said :jump!, how high they did.

The generation of our grandparents begun to lead the world in the mid-late 50's. Before that it was the great grandparents and older. Eve to day we deal wth the consequences of decisions taken by men born in the 1870's. IN many ways, we deal as much with the messy end of WW1 as the messy end of WW2.

	15-10-2003 07:45									#21
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In my eyes, true character shows through by what you do when difficult circumstances are handed to you.

Some good points, GePap, but it's time for me to get some sleep

	15-10-2003 07:46									#22
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someone has been reading too many walter kronkite books.

	15-10-2003 07:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 someone has been reading too many walter kronkite books.

Now I really need to go to bed!!!!!