15-10-2003 04:28									#1
	The President - Nominations Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Now that the government has basically been decided upon, only one slot remains to be filled. This is the special slot for President. The President can be anyone in the game (does not have to be a knesset member) that is nominated in this thread. The current coalition members will then vote for the President from the nominees. Keep in mind that the President is the most important citizen in Israel and becomes a member of knesset. Candidates should be people who have made lots of contributions to this game and should generally be good players and people. PinkyGen and would like to nominate Steve (conmcb25) for this position, so he's the first one on the list. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the president's term last for 6 months (the equivalent of one knesset term) and he can be re-elected once more (that's a maximum of TWO terms).

Current Nominees:

conmcb25
Ben Kenobi

Last edited by EmuGod on 17-10-2003 at 05:29

	15-10-2003 04:56									#2
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This procedure will probably be changed to elect the President for next elections, but for now the coalition will chose.

	15-10-2003 04:56									#3
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Emu forgot to mention that if you already have another position you cant be the president.

I dont know if I can do this or not. The "Laws" called for this person to be a third moderator. After my thread and the zapping of it over the "incident" Im really not sure management wants me to be a mod............

And where did the two terms come from?

That is NOT in the "PinkyGen's Basic Laws" thread. If we want to change it fine but we need to have a vote to change Laws we all agreed upon.

Last edited by conmcb25 on 15-10-2003 at 05:03

	15-10-2003 07:04									#4
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We didn't really say how the Prez was to be elected. I originally thought it was going to be a cabinet post, appointed like any other.

As I said, this is only for this session, and the process and term limits for future election cycles would need to be voted upon. And some stuff, such as being the 3rd moderator, will probably need to be dropped.

	15-10-2003 08:23									#5
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quote: I originally thought it was going to be a cabinet post, appointed like any other.

Shouldn't the selection be done by the members of the Knesset?

	16-10-2003 03:53									#6
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It is Ben Kenobi, but currently it appears that no one else wants to challenge Steve for the job so it looks like he might win by default.

	16-10-2003 04:01									#7
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Members of the Knesset cannot be president?

	16-10-2003 04:26									#8
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Member of the knesset can be President, citizens can be President. Anyone can be President, so long as they are not in the army.

The issue there is no method prescribed in the laws on how the President is to be slected.

	16-10-2003 04:36									#9
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There could be a vote of no confidence.............

I nominate Ben Kenobi, we should at least have competition in this one even if he is a dam liberal!


The method is sort of prescribed in the PinkyGen's basic laws thread. This needs to be definitized over the next 6 game months. A poll and then we can modify basic laws. For right now we need to get going. The peanut gallery is VERY RESTLESS!

	16-10-2003 04:38									#10
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Before electing a PM, I'd like to hear what they thing about the military. Being a military myself, I'd like to know what the priorities of each candidate are...

	16-10-2003 04:39									#11
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Right out of Pinky's basic laws poll:

"2. President: Either elected out of the Knesset or by possible vote, will be determined in Basic Laws II.

The President would be a third moderator for the forum, would substitute for any missing players and coordinate efforts between the various departments. The President could also "make laws" so to speak if different jobs apparently overlapped, though it is ultimately the PM's responsibility to adjugate disputes between Ministers "

So I guess thats an open issue and we need to do a poll, chose one way or the other and then its a done deal. We can discuss later, lets move on with Knesset elections this time, thats the most definitive statement in the laws right now.

	16-10-2003 04:43									#12
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I also favour the Knesset electing the Pressident... this time: next time, other method can be worked out. However, I'd like to have a consensus about it... The President is a honorary figure more than a imporant politican figure, so I guess that asking for 3/5 of the knesset to agree in the election could be fine... In fact, in true-life Israel, the Pressident is elected by the Knesset...

	16-10-2003 05:01									#13
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[One Israel Party Hack Hat On.]

I fully support giving the military everything they need to defend our country and strike out at the Arabs if it will destroy there will to fight! And fight they will once the Brits leave, make no mistake about it. I personnally think limiting the objectives for the military is a bunch of crap. And only being able to increase the objectives by an 80% vote is crappier still! But as a member of the coalition government, I will abide by the decisions neccessary to bind the coalition. I certainly do not like it however.

With that being said I will ALWAYS vote to expand the war beyond the primary and secondary objectives if the military feels it is necessary for the safety of our new state.

If you want half a$$ measures vote for someone else.........

[One Israel Party Hack Hat Off.]

	16-10-2003 07:00									#14
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I accept the nomination, conmcb.


As defined in the basic rules, I ask you to support me as the president of this DG. As the leader of the opposition party, my ceremonial role would serve to counterbalance the power of the coalition. I would also be available to take spare turns, and to spur on deliquent generals.

Secondly, while conmcb has established his presence I'm not confident in his ability to moderate the forum. I'm very leery of his suggestions regarding the military policy, which ought to be left to the generals, and not to the politically elected president.

I offer to ensure the seperation of political interference from military affairs. Let each side do what they do best.

	16-10-2003 07:31									#15
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1. For the election: I guess if everybody else forgets an aspect of my rules, I can be forgetful as well. Full knesset it is, at least for this round. Btw, selection of President is not holding the game up, we will proceed once El Awrence has his command structure in place.

2. For the pure political attack: Well, I'm the Prime Minister and doing this kind of job is probably beneath the dignity of the post, especially their others who are far more capable. However, there is homework for me to do, and as long as I can put that off, the happier I become.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi As defined in the basic rules, I ask you to support me as the president of this DG. As the leader of the opposition party, my ceremonial role would serve to counterbalance the power of the coalition.

This is what I'm afraid of.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I would also be available to take spare turns, and to spur on deliquent generals.

The peacenik spurring on the generals.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Secondly, while conmcb has established his presence I'm not confident in his ability to moderate the forum.

How so?
Anyways, to raise a serious point for a second, I'm not sure if we can actually make the President the moderator. Ming appears to have that power, and it has been demonstrated that his will overrides ours.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I'm very leery of his suggestions regarding the military policy, which ought to be left to the generals, and not to the politically elected president. I offer to ensure the seperation of political interference from military affairs. Let each side do what they do best.

Oh, now that his party isn't in power, he wants to seperate the military powers. So if you are President, you would let the military do what it does best, kill Arabs?

This poor partisan hatchet job has been brought to you by the lettle Alef, and the number Shalosh.

	16-10-2003 09:09									#16
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quote: Anyways, to raise a serious point for a second, I'm not sure if we can actually make the President the moderator. Ming appears to have that power, and it has been demonstrated that his will overrides ours.

True, but look at HTower's role in the other DGs. We should not need any intervention from Ming in the forum since we ought to police ourselves.

I don't really see the need for a third mini-mod for this forum.

quote: So if you are President, you would let the military do what it does best, kill Arabs?

Aren't you looking for a ceremonial President? Would you prefer a pacifist meddling in the military?

	16-10-2003 09:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi True, but look at HTower's role in the other DGs. We should not need any intervention from Ming in the forum since we ought to police ourselves. I don't really see the need for a third mini-mod for this forum.

True, and that moral leadership shall be needed since I don't know if the President would get the actual authority. Hopefully the moral authority can suffice.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Aren't you looking for a ceremonial President? Would you prefer a pacifist meddling in the military?

Hey, I was trying to point out your hypocrisy first. Also, that's why I want the militaristic President. And to be fair to conmcb25, he was talking "urging", not ordering.

I think I need to start making two posts here. One for my cheap partisan shots, and one for actually discussing what the hell this President is. Anyway, may the best Jew win.

	16-10-2003 11:22									#18
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Well if you want a moral leader, why do only warmongers count as moral?

	16-10-2003 13:49									#19
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Ben isn't confident in my ability to moderate. I guess I dont suck up enough around here.

You know Ben you're right, the last thing I would want to do is moderate around here. I don't agree with management and how they handle obvious cheaters. And quite frankly I dont agree with you or any of the other people here who wanted to hear from panag or give him a second chance.

In my world you do something wrong and you get punished. Simple as that.

But you know what? It doesn't matter what I think or you think.

All that matters is what Ming thinks. (Or Mark G)

So Ill make it simple. The President was supposed to have moderating powers per our voted on Laws. We dont have the power to do it and I certainly don't want the job. So if that is a showstopper, I guess just dont vote for me. Or better yet maybe I need to leave for taking such a high moral stand.

I just wanted to be clear on that point.

	16-10-2003 20:46									#20
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quote: Ben isn't confident in my ability to moderate.

I'm not sure we ought to have a third moderator regardless of the outcome.

quote: And quite frankly I dont agree with you or any of the other people here who wanted to hear from panag or give him a second chance.

Tough. He still has not been proved guilty of cheating. When he returns, when his ban is finished, he will still be able to post in this forum. How would you respond to that? Could you accept Panag's return?

	16-10-2003 21:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Tough. He still has not been proved guilty of cheating. When he returns, when his ban is finished, he will still be able to post in this forum. How would you respond to that? Could you accept Panag's return?

Nope, I wont accept it, I will leave simple as that.

As a matter of fact since: "there was no proof of cheating", I nominate panag to be President.

He can send me a PM or email if he wants to post a speech.

	16-10-2003 21:17									#22
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I second the nomination of Ben Kenobi.

	16-10-2003 21:38									#23
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Guys, first of all, please stop discussing about, panag

Second, I don't know if changing moderators all the time will be a thing that the Apoly staff would agree to... Why shall the president be moderator? Being moderator only means, if all going OK as I hope It's going to go, make thread sticky/unsticky and open/closed...

	16-10-2003 21:58									#24
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quote: Originally posted by yaroslav Guys, first of all, please stop discussing about, panag

OK Ill stop talking but my nomination stands.

quote: Originally posted by yaroslav Second, I don't know if changing moderators all the time will be a thing that the Apoly staff would agree to... Why shall the president be moderator? Being moderator only means, if all going OK as I hope It's going to go, make thread sticky/unsticky and open/closed...

Because it was in the PinkyGen;'s Basic Laws Poll.

Im not saying thats right, Im not saying it needs to be done. Im just saying its there. Looks like issue number 2, to resolve as we definitize the government.

	16-10-2003 22:30									#25
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Yaro, message recieved.

	16-10-2003 22:41									#26
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Ok, I've not problems giving the moderator tittle to other (in fact, in some ways it will be a pleasure ), but I don't know if the Staff of this site wouldn't find annyong us to change moderators each 6 turns...

BTW, only two moderators (pluss a mega-moderator) are accepted.

	16-10-2003 22:50									#27
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It was only in the law because it was Emu's idea, and I assumed since he suggested it, it was feasible. If it's not feasible, then to hell with it.

There are better things to argue with Poly staff over than creating a new moderator every 6 turns.

	16-10-2003 22:54									#28
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Roger that.

My point is that its in there, if it shouldn't be we need to get that fixed.

Thats issue #2 to resolve in the President's section of the "laws".

	16-10-2003 23:01									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I offer to ensure the seperation of political interference from military affairs. Let each side do what they do best.

Just exactly what did, I say that made you think I would meddle in military affairs.?

And how can you separate Politics and War? War is nothing but politics by other means.

We have already politically interfered in military objectives. And Harmony wanted to throttle the military even more than the One Israel/ Center Coalition.

How can you just make this blanket statement. Am I misinterpretting something here?

	17-10-2003 05:28									#30
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Ok, maybe I haven't really defined the President's role. The President is Israel's "most important citizen". He represents Israel (kinda like the foreign minister) and is chosen through distinct devotion to the state of Israel and through all the work he has done for the country. So the candidate who is chosen should be a person who has contributed a lot to the game and its development.