15-10-2003 05:13									#1
	Science in 1806 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Tax rate: 80%
science rate: 20%
lux rate 0%

Income:800 Costs: 155
Techs every 29 turns
Currently researching Tactics (almost halfway there)

Currently the Germans are researching tactics, I say let's allow them to discover the tech, and then steal it from them, don't boost the science rate yet. Maybe the %20 can be put towards allowing cities to celebrate?

After stealing tactics from the germans, Industrialization and Amphibious Warfare become available. We can steal industrialization from the Zulus. As far as warfare is concerned, after tactics the only two worthwhile techs would be mobile warfare(very long way off) or machine tools (for artillery. currently need 4 techs, tactics, industrialization, Steel and Machine tools).

If the SMC would like to comment on how much more useful artillery would be than cannons, it would be easier to put forth a plan of action.

The questions now are, how soon will the germans discover tactics and whether it would be a blow to us to have to fight a tactics equipped Germany, maybe we should rush for tactics and beat them over the head with it before they get it. Also, when will the Zulus get industrialization, if it isn't for a while, we may have to adjust the science rate to research it ourselves if we want artillery.

I reccommend waiting for Germany to discover tactics and then steal it from them, after that I don't forsee us needing more technology to crush the remaining enemies. The SMC is of course encouraged to correct me if I'm wrong.

	15-10-2003 05:58									#2
	Got spare money?

Not sure about the route to machine tools, but according to the last save I received we still need Magnetism and Electricity in addition to the techs you identify (though we have Railroad now that we didn't have then).



Regardless of this though, I think we need to increase our tax rate, to at a minimum get Tactics, after that, I like the idea of reducing it to 0 and trying to celebrate our cities.

Further, I would like to see a poll, we are soon to get Tactics regardless (in 7-14 turns) and we do not have a secondary goal.

* Sparrowhawk giving his two cents worth

	15-10-2003 06:24									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

sonufa*****. Sparrow is correct, we need magnetism and electricity as well before we can research artillery. All the more reason IMO to cut back the science rate or leave it as is. I still maintain stealing tactics from the germans once they discover it is the best plan of action though.

	15-10-2003 07:24									#4
	Tired of ads?

Machine Tools would be great, as Artillery has 2hp. , 2fp. vs 2 and 1 for Cannon. I seem to recall a study that Marquis de Sodaq (?) did that showed Artillery was even better than Armor vs walled units.

Alas, MT is so far away that it's probably impractical. I say we turn science down to the minimum (did I mention that it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO wasteful in Fundy? ) and steal Tactics from the Boche. We'll use the additional money to rushbuy units, and bribe... trust me, there are lots of ways to take out walled units that don't involve head-on assaults.

	15-10-2003 08:15									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with the proposal to drop science to zero.

Then we can go 60% tax and 40% luxuries to celebrate all of our cities.

All we would need is to invest in the Marketplaces and Banks for the cities that are not yet celebrating.

	15-10-2003 08:33									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So is this an informal poll? Cause if it is, the results already confuse me, though I think so far there are three votes to drop the science rate now to 0 and one vote to increase the science rate for the 7 turns it will take us to discover tactics and then to decrease to 0.

* Sparrowhawk

	15-10-2003 11:58									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

your science minister isn't smart enough too come up with all the good ideas everyone combined can, so this is an informal poll

	15-10-2003 12:17									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

lets see the Zulu's will probably be wiped out(or 2/3 cities left) after next session so don't expect anything from them.

we will need to bribe atlanta instead or lose the entire army send there(because of lack of upgrade(yes those units are way outdated)...
and then we will start fighting the germans without having tactics(and probably not getting it before we lost the major part of our troops...)

as you can see I just love the idea of not piching up our sciencerate to 50% for 7 turns

but then again why would it be interesting to get 65 new riflemen and a few dozen Cavalry within the next session if we can postpone it a session or 2.

Shade

	15-10-2003 19:36									#9
	Got spare money?

Once we have Tactics then I don't see which other techs will be required. As long as we use the upgraded troops we have to ensure the Germans never reach either Mobile Warfare or Labour Onion then we can just run them down with hossies. Any units we inherit from other civs will be upgraded with the techs we inherit at the same time. We should get to Tactics, turn up the cash and then blow the heck out of the other civs!

	15-10-2003 19:48									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: but then again why would it be interesting to get 65 new riflemen and a few dozen Cavalry within the next session if we can postpone it a session or 2.

Given our current rate, it would take us 14 turns.

I'll bet the AI can research Tactics before the end of this session.

Why should we do their dirty work for them?

BTW, we have Leos, and Leos will upgrade all of our dragoons to Calvary, so we ought to build some cheap Calvary during the time we have at hand.

	15-10-2003 20:44									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Dragoons cost almost as much as Cavalry (50 vs 60), so I think it would make sense to build Cavalry in cities with Barracks *after* we get Tactics, so the Cavalry will be Vet.

I would like to see us get Tactics and the unit upgrade as quickly as possible so that we can assault the cities we can't bribe with the least unit loss.

	15-10-2003 22:57									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by H Tower your science minister isn't smart enough too come up with all the good ideas everyone combined can, so this is an informal poll

Works for me, the only problem with this is accurately summarizing the opinions. Some of the threads above (and below) your post are not clear to me as to how they wish us to go (increase science rate until tactics), decrease science rate to 0, leave science rate as it is, increase science rate beyond tactics (to some future tech??)......but thankfully it is not my job to interpret the results, so I will leave it to minds wiser then my own. ....such as our Science Minister.

* Sparrowhawk wishing you good luck

	15-10-2003 23:20									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Given our current rate, it would take us 14 turns. [QUOTE] We already have half the beakers we need => 14/2=7 turns [QUOTE] I'll bet the AI can research Tactics before the end of this session.

but then again who says that will happen??

quote: Why should we do their dirty work for them?

Hell no, we won't be doing their dirty work if we invent it first the only way they might get it is from capturing one of our cities.
(and until now the only 2 cities they actually succeeded to capture were 2 little cities which had to take a stand entirely on their own vs the invading imperium.chances are very slimm such a situation will provide itself any time soon(except maybe if we go for the silly plan of capturing Pharsalos).

7 turns is all we need, 7 turns is all I ask. and in return I'll provide victory after victory after victory

Shade
(PS War is one of the things that actually boosts science(albeit mostly not in a really good way,but Tactics is one that fits the profile))

	16-10-2003 00:19									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Given our SMC's lack of confidence in our forces without the knowledge of Tactics, I feel that it actually would be in our best intrests to raise the science rate so that we do discover Tactics ASAP. Any thoughts would be appreciated

	16-10-2003 01:22									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

As President, I greatly desire the possibility of upgrades to Cavalry, the building of new Cavalry units in Barracks cities that will start out Vet, and the upgrading of 65 3-3 Musketeers that will become 65 5-4 Riflemen. The 2 extra attack and the 1 defense could mean a greater survival rate anpong our units.

The wounded will be placed in the cities we take and leave behind, and they will heal while our army is moving forward and preventing enemy units from attacking.

Give us the Cavalry and upgrade of Musketeers and we will make a huge step forward, an attack gain of almost 20%, and we will need fewer defensive units in all cities (and think of the units from safe cities that can be moved to the fronts)!

We need to sweep throuth the Zulus and wipe them out, and find the remaining American cities (which will require our best assault abilities) before we get to the Germans. I expect we will find the weak Russians along the way.

That will leave us only the Germans and Greeks to deal with, and we can divide our armies in the south to deal with each through bribery and military conquest.

The strategy is to wipe out civs in turn, the most available first, and set up a grand finale of massive German/Greek city takeover at the end.

Please support getting Tactics quickly! Time is running out and it is a large map. I hope to see an army of 40 Vet Cavalry descending on the Greeks begore we turn and win the game by crushing the Germans!

	16-10-2003 01:24									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Why not divert that cash going into science to upgrading infrastructure and military units?

We could also use the extra cash for bribery and celebrations.

Surely the SMC would not advocate cutting military expenditures.

Besides, why will it matter if we get Tactics in 7 turns if we can't deliver the units to the German front?

	16-10-2003 01:40									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Partly because this is a military game. I don't want to just bribe my way through other civs. We could do that with trade, and we have. We want (I think) some active military campaigns where we take enemy civ cities by force and skill of attack.

Yes, that means we will lose some units. What else are we going to do with the Fanatics, just guard cities? They deserve their time to attack as well.

As I see it, we will take some cities by force, we will bribe some cities, and we will even suffocate a few last cities be sitting on their specials until they weaken.

I doubt that we could bribe every city by the end of the game. So we are at least forced to use more direct means. We have a large army for a reason; it's time to use it. There are more where they came from, and that's the purpose of having a RR network. We have at least as many units unneeded for city defense as we have in the field. We should use our road/RR network to balance threat with attack. I am all for keeping our seemingly-safe cities protected from Barbs or surprise attacks by civs. But we don't need 3 Musketeers in a remote city 30 turns from attack especially when they can becone Riflemen and 1 each city can join the front lines..

We are military, let us act that way.

Take the battle to the enemy! Bring all the firce we can to the enemy. Take any city with the last attack unit available.

Then move on...

	17-10-2003 18:54									#18
	Re: Science in 1806 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by H Tower Currently the Germans are researching tactics, I say let's allow them to discover the tech, and then steal it from them, don't boost the science rate yet. Maybe the %20 can be put towards allowing cities to celebrate?

My informal vote counts for this plan - celebrating cities sounds nice to me - at the very least we can compare the results from celebrating cities to those not celebrating and see which is the more productive.

	17-10-2003 21:32									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think a celebating Fundy has been shown to be more productive than one that does not celebrate, at least after the initial luxuries boost required to kick the cities into celebration. It is harder to start celebrations, than to sustain them, like an endothermic chemical reaction.

	18-10-2003 10:55									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I really wanted to vote in this poll , but unfortunately when I went to vote , the poll was not open.

I look forward to a Science poll in the next sequence of turns.

* Sparrowhawk