15-10-2003 12:32									#1
	Lighthouse and trade across sea squares Increase the size of your Attachments

Anyone know if the lighthouse allows your civ to trade across sea squares? I thought it could, but it appears not. The problem has come up in a pbem so it difficult for me to run experiments on it.

	15-10-2003 14:20									#2
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AFAIK it should but I have found it to be inconsistent.

	15-10-2003 14:40									#3
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It works fine in the Naval PBEM. I have the Lighthouse and can trade with other civs connected by sea. They also can initiate trades with me.

	15-10-2003 16:01									#4
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Yes, the Lighthouse allows trade over sea tiles. We had this situation between Legoland and Gathering Storm in the PtWDG. Our landmass had no "coastal crossing" to other teams, yet we were able to trade with GS even before the discovery of Astronomy - thanks to their Great Lighthouse.

	15-10-2003 18:20									#5
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Thats excellent news, but the problem remains.

I cant offer Rome lux even though we both have harbours, me the lighthouse, and I can see an unbroken coast and sea path. The only thing I can think of is that I did not explore one vital island in the chain, and instead gained that part of the map through trade.

Could it be that I have to explore every part of the trade route, and that map trade doesnt really count for the purposes of trade routes? Has anyone else heard of this bug?

	15-10-2003 18:39									#6
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There's one more thing that can block trade: enemy or barbarian units. If there are places that are very narrow(typically 1 tile) then it can be blocked by barbs or other civs(if you or your trading partner are at war with them) even if you cannot see their units.

	15-10-2003 18:48									#7
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There are a few places where barbs could set up a 2 square blockade, but that would be pretty organized on their part, and I imagine they would move after a while. I have been unable to trade since I got given the map a few turns back. The only person I am at war with is rome, and he is the one I am offering the lux as part of a peace treaty. Surely his boats would 'unblock' if it was part of peace?

	15-10-2003 20:13									#8
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I'm not positive, but that might be the answer. I don't believe you can do a lux trade as part of a peace treaty, because technically you are still at war until the peace is signed. Try signing the peace treaty...then call them up again and offer the lux deal and see what happens.

	15-10-2003 20:59									#9
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Im not quite ready for peace yet

Thats the problem with this being pbem, I just cant try these things out

	15-10-2003 21:05									#10
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I presume they are not engaged in an embargo with you? None of the path has sea tiles that cross another civ that has an embargo?

	15-10-2003 21:16									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty Im not quite ready for peace yet

I didn't realize that from your prior posts. You can't trade with someone you are at war with, so the only way to do a lux deal with him is to have peace.

	15-10-2003 23:58									#12
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Interesting concept,

"Please buy my Luxuries so that I might have more money with which to build weapons for bashing in thine head..........."

	16-10-2003 00:10									#13
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Rhothaerill, you're right. I'm 100% positive that you can't give(or get) resources/luxuries in a peace deal. You got to have peace FIRST.

Sligthly OT, I have only limited PBEM-experience myself but if i want to find out the excact details about the game-mechanics, do I have to start a PBEM game with myself or will a hotseat game work excactly the same way?

	16-10-2003 00:12									#14
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You can start a standard PBEM, leave all the passwords blank and play it like a Hotseat game.

	16-10-2003 00:19									#15
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The only reason I want to be able to trade lux with rome is because he is on an island with someone else. If I can trade lux with rome, that means I can trade lux with the others once they have built a harbour.

I wanted to get this sorted out before I made the conection with them so we can trade straight away.

And no embargos yet.

	16-10-2003 05:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Rhothaerill, you're right. I'm 100% positive that you can't give(or get) resources/luxuries in a peace deal. You got to have peace FIRST.

BTW, there is (or was, depending on patches) a bug in this regard... Catt, myself, and others have seen specific incidences where lux trading was in fact allowed in peace negotiations.

	16-10-2003 14:43									#17
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Sea trade but not ocean trade