15-10-2003 17:18									#1
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French President Jacques Chirac will represent Germany on the last day of this week's European Union summit, according to German officials in Berlin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3192414.stm

	16-10-2003 22:13									#2
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I can't wait to have France and Germany fusionned. Maybe at last the hideous Deutsche Bahn will be replaced by the great SNCF ?

	16-10-2003 22:40									#3
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are these guys in love or what?

	16-10-2003 23:13									#4
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Also I think on the 15th Chinese first man into space came back down to earth.

	16-10-2003 23:35									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf are these guys in love or what?

THey are both taking advantage if the EU, ignoring their duties and making their own little hard EU core. They'd better be in love while doing so.

	17-10-2003 01:42									#6
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Yang Liwei: a new star has risen!

	17-10-2003 01:49									#7
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Yes, we know what this is. This is to show the united front of the anglo-saxon connection. This is to show 'you small countries can lick our butts'. Well guess what? WE DON'T CARE!

	17-10-2003 02:00									#8
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Pekka:
At the beginnign of the year, you posted a very sensible post, saying that if you Finn had to choose between being the vassal of the US/UK, or being the vassal of France and Germany, you'd at least go with the winner.

Chirac should have read that. Trying to create a strong core with Germany, only to vassalize (or 'interest' them into joining) other countries is bounded to failure. The whole Europe-wide disagreement over the war in Iraq came from the fact, the semi-big countries like Italy and Spain were tired to follow what daddy France and mommy Germany said.

	17-10-2003 02:18									#9
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Spiffor, I agree with you.

But I admit I sometimes go overboard with my angst against anglo-saxon power house. But I give them credit for being the bulls though..

But you know what sucks the most? That when we voted for joining the EU, the YES campagners clearly stated, that there will be NO common money (euro), NO constitution types of binding laws that we are not so much in control of ourselves (it's coming up) and NO defense talks (some countries have decided it for the rest of us). That was the deal. The NO campagners warned about these, and what they said came up as the more correct. Now, I'd still say we should have joined, but I think that many who voted YES would have, with this info, voted NO. These were the absolute no no's, that these are not going to happen. But they did. And you know what the best part IMO is? THe ones with more knowledge than the average citizen about these.. they KNEW about where this will take us for sure. And who makes up these directions? The ones with the most influence. And who is this old french dude, it's like we're building his utopia for him and worship his word like it was the word of our saviour.

One thing that WAS promised is, that when we join the prices will go down. That's right. Also, that especially the food will be cheaper. Guess what happened? That's right. I don't even have to say it.

What pisses me off the most is, that we as a country and a member.. it's not like the EU is all evil and frenchies and germans bad.. we're just as bad, if not worse. What we secrelty hoped for, is that things like super taxed cars etc will be history, since we can buy then inside EU and bring them home, and maybe pay small extra taxes to the customs.. but we are holding up the prices, they really don't come down at all. What's with that? We can't come and buy car inside EU and drive it home without paying so much money it makes the car most expensivce in the whole region of the EU? Why? We obey the rules that we like, and disobey the ones that we don't like, we protect some things we hate to pay for, against the common rules, well maybe not the rules but the whole IDEA of the whole thing. What's the point? We thought cheaper stuff, did we get it? Hell no!
So what exactly did we gain, that we were promised? Hmm.... lemme think.. we got new drivers licenses that states I'm from EU.. cool.. Lying piece of no good mofos. They knew it, and they withheld the info just to pursue their own agendas. They KNEW it wouldn't happen, if they went with the info they had, so they had to keep these illusions and dreams flying in peoples heads and myths that never came truth like it was promised. And then there even wasn't a real basis for them to come truth, so what was with the talks then, huh?

We should have entered with honesty, and knowing the basic things and what's going to happen, what are the goals of this thing and what we are driving for. Not with lies, cheating and stupid games. And that's what makes the YES campagners dirty rotten people. Europe or no Europe, but with honesty. If we lose that basic idea in our way of thinking, then we lost the very same thing that makes me proud to be Finn. Then we lose our cornerstones.. and what do we got left then? Sure, we have union, but it was a lie to us, so it's worth **** to me. Regardless of what I think of EU. I **** on the papers that signed us to the deal.

	17-10-2003 02:36									#10
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But we have no one else to blame but ourselves. So it's no ones fault.. nothing to do with france or germany, nothing to do with them. And then again, why should we blame ourselves... well, how about screwing up the whole voting thing. How am I supposed to trust next big thing we need to vote for?

	17-10-2003 02:44									#11
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It's the whole political system man.. I'm starting to really dislike it. Like last elections we had.. what a fiasco. Half the people just vote for celebs, half votes for who ever they have voted the last 60 years. Youngsters don't even vote, they don't even know who's running ... and go for a celeb. The ones who really do are usually weird idealists voting for someone who says will save the planet from greenhouse effects, other ones saying they will run things for young folks.. yeah like that'll ever happen.

Then the most parties will lie their butts off about what they'll do, I don't know who ever makes the 10 point programs and what ever, they should get fired in less than one second. They are bunch of more lies, and the worst part is, rarely they even TRY to go for these plans.. they just present paper A for the stupid people and then when they get the power they go for the paper B and personal agendas. They promise something for everyone, but when they get in power it's more cuttings from everyone. I don't mind that, but everyone lacked the cojones to say they will only cut cut and cut. Since there is no money. No one dares to question the whole system, except communist party, but if you do that you'll be categorized as weird as them. People don't really care, if they did, they'd stop buying the bullshit they've been eating. I don't know maybe someone puts something on our food that makes us stupid, fat, lazy and uncaring of matters. Sometimes I feel like the only ones active are neo-nazis, and then again I don't identify with them, so it's no use. God damn it. Well I'm not going to think this anymore today, since I'm having a good week.