15-10-2003 19:21									#1
	Zero Tolerance or just zero common sense? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Discipline Decided In Student Inhaler Incident Students To Withdraw From School MONTGOMERY COUNTY, Texas -- A meeting was held Friday for a student accused of breaking school rules and state law by giving his girlfriend his inhaler when she had trouble breathing, News2Houston reported. Video Andra Ferguson and her boyfriend, Brandon Kivi, both 15, use the same type of asthma medicine, Albuterol Inhalation Aerosol. Ferguson said she forgot to bring her medication to their school, Caney Creek High School, 16840 FM 2090, on Sept. 24. When she had trouble breathing, she went to the nurse's office. Out of concern, Kivi let her use his inhaler. But the school nurse said it was a violation of the district's no-tolerance drug policy, and reported Kivi to the campus police. He was suspended for three days and charged with delivering a dangerous drug. He faced expulsion and being sent to juvenile detention on juvenile drug charges. On Friday, school officials decided to expel Kivi but not press criminal charges. They said it was an amicable agreement. "I'm happy. Everything's final," Kivi said. "I'm expelled 'til after Christmas and I can come back after Christmas, but I won't." Ferguson said Kivi possibly saved her life and should never have been punished. "I still think he did the right thing 'cause he was just doing good and he did the right thing," Ferguson said. Conroe Independent School District officials released the following statement. "Texas school districts are required by law to expel students who commit certain offenses. Delivery of a dangerous drug is one of those offenses." Kivi's family is relieved it's over. "I won in a way, but what they (did) to my son was unfair. I'm still angry," said Theresa Hock, Kivi's mother. Kivi said the ordeal taught him the lesson of a lifetime. "If I had this to do again, I would do the right thing and ask the nurse before I do it, to keep out of trouble," Kivi said. Ferguson was not disciplined over the incident. Both Kivi and Ferguson decided to withdraw from Caney Creek High School to be home-schooled. The families received calls of support from around the world after their story was made public.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/2547143/detail.html




Zero tolerance policies are just pure laziness. Instead of using their brains and deciding for themselves whether this deserved punishment, the school administrators just follow a nonsensical policy. This kind of thing happens far too often under zero tolerance policies - isn't it time we got rid of them?

Stories like this scare me. They illustrate just how low the schools in this country have sunk. If these are the people educating our children then the future looks pretty grim.

	15-10-2003 19:27									#2
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Let me get this straight: They use the same sort of prescription drugs, and one was punished for giving the other the drug?

indeed.

	15-10-2003 19:29									#3
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Albuterol is not a dangerous drug. I'd sue.


Caligastia, this is Texas. They are major dumbasses when it comes to educating their children there. Their educational system is completely broken, but by god they can play some football. At least they have their priorities straight.

	15-10-2003 19:40									#4
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I have no words for this. It's too early to really work myself into a fury, but "idiotic" is too gentle a word for this.

-Arrian

	15-10-2003 19:46									#5
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By God that kid will think twice before helping out a friend ever again! He sure learned his lesson!

	15-10-2003 19:48									#6
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As an asthmatic, I can tell you right now, if anyone ever needed a puff off my inhaler, I wouldn't hesitate to give it to them, not even if he was George W. Bush. Suffocating is terrifying and painful, and watching someone needlessly suffer when I can stop it is just cruel and evil and the kind of thing George W. Bush would do.

	15-10-2003 19:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Caligastia, this is Texas. They are major dumbasses when it comes to educating their children there. Their educational system is completely broken, but by god they can play some football. At least they have their priorities straight.

This kind of stuff really makes me despair.

Ok, so Texas has a bad educational system where this kind of stuff happens, but I have also heard similar stories from other parts of the country that have zero tolerance policies.

	15-10-2003 19:51									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ok, so Texas has a bad educational system where this kind of stuff happens, but I have also heard similar stories from other parts of the country that have zero tolerance policies.

Generally, the worse the educational system, the more likely they are to pull this kinda stuff. I don't think I want to send any future children to public schools, because I don't want them to learn to put up with authoritarian BS that isn't my own.

	15-10-2003 19:52									#9
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara As an asthmatic, I can tell you right now, if anyone ever needed a puff off my inhaler, I wouldn't hesitate to give it to them, not even if he was George W. Bush. Suffocating is terrifying and painful, and watching someone needlessly suffer when I can stop it is just cruel and evil and the kind of thing George W. Bush would do.

I think you must be obsessed with George W. Bush - come on, admit it...you're in love.

	15-10-2003 19:55									#10
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Generally, the worse the educational system, the more likely they are to pull this kinda stuff. I don't think I want to send any future children to public schools, because I don't want them to learn to put up with authoritarian BS that isn't my own.

I totally agree. Some of the stuff coming from public schools these days is dangerously idiotic. I think I'd either send them to a private school or home-school them.

	15-10-2003 19:56									#11
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sounds like our public school system alright!

	15-10-2003 20:02									#12
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and now you see the truth behind kids these days not liking school, its not because its boring its because we have more common sense than the entire staff put together. apperantly it was beaten out of them by thier teachers when they were in school.

	15-10-2003 20:25									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I don't think I want to send any future children to public schools, because I don't want them to learn to put up with authoritarian BS that isn't my own.

Sig material -- only your authoritarian BS counts, right?

	15-10-2003 20:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Sig material -- only your authoritarian BS counts, right?

All parents are authoritarians if they want to raise decent children.

	15-10-2003 20:35									#15
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California has the same zero tolerance policy so I could see some dumb ass administrator trying to pull the same sort of thing here.

I wonder if the boy could have sued under the federal good samaritan protection laws. Depending upon how sever the woman's asthma was you could make a case that her life was in danger, or at least her boyfriend had reason to believe so, and so he acted to save her life just as if he happened upon a stranger bleeding to death in the street. Would that sort of angle work or do the good samaritan laws only protect people from civil penalties?

The girl says she thought her boyfriend had saved her life. I think they have a case here and should be able to sue for damages since her was expelled and publicly ridiculed.

	15-10-2003 20:39									#16
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I think the school did the right thing. I also think the boy did the right thing. Perhaps this zero tolerance policy is a bad thing and needs to be changed, however...

	15-10-2003 20:51									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I think the school did the right thing.

?!?!?!

You must be joking.

	15-10-2003 20:56									#18
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Studies have shown that zero tolerance has had almost no effect on teen drug use.

	15-10-2003 20:57									#19
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Rules are rules. Only doctors and pharmacists are permited, by law, to dispense or supply drugs. What if the prescription wasn't exactly the same? What if they were confused on the matter? It is a risk the school is not willing to take, and that they shouldn't have too. Since they are liable for the well-being of the children.

If I were the kid I would of done the same thing.

	15-10-2003 21:12									#20
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Albuterol inhalers are all the same, except for the non-aresol kind.

	15-10-2003 21:23									#21
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quote: Only doctors and pharmacists are permitted, by law, to dispense or supply drugs.

I'm not sure this situation falls under the category of dispensing or supplying a drug.

Dispense.

"to prepare and distribute (medication)"

The kid did not prepare the material, as a doctor or a pharmacist would.

However, supply might count, as the kid fufilled the material wants and needs of his friend.

What about a nurse? Would not a nurse be able to administer the inhalent?

	15-10-2003 21:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Would not a nurse be able to administer the inhalent?

No. The nurse would be required to either contact the child's parents and have them bring the medicine to the school or call paramedics. Meanwhile, the asthmatic must endure fear and pain.

	15-10-2003 21:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Rules are rules. Only doctors and pharmacists are permited, by law, to dispense or supply drugs. What if the prescription wasn't exactly the same? What if they were confused on the matter? It is a risk the school is not willing to take, and that they shouldn't have too. Since they are liable for the well-being of the children.

If you agree with what the kid did, you can't say the school did the right thing. Unless you believe in punishing a good deed.

	15-10-2003 21:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia If you agree with what the kid did, you can't say the school did the right thing. Unless you believe in punishing a good deed.

Republicans typically do.

	15-10-2003 21:31									#25
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This is just stupid. I would fight this.

	15-10-2003 21:33									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www This is just stupid. I would fight this.

They are fighting it, by dropping out and home schooling.

	15-10-2003 21:35									#27
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Republicans typically do.

In what way? Can you give me an example?

	15-10-2003 21:42									#28
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San Diego has had some assinine "zero tolerance" issues as well. It's an excuse for bureaucrats to not have to think, but then again, if they had the power to think, they wouldn't defend their actions, they'd point out the failures of "zero tolerance."

A lot of these same morons would make the same decisions if they didn't have "zero tolerance" to hide behind.

	15-10-2003 21:48									#29
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quote: If you agree with what the kid did, you can't say the school did the right thing. Unless you believe in punishing a good deed.

In order to a good deed the kid had to break a "law". He has to pay now. No one ever said one good deed gets another, it just deserves it.

I believe that sometimes you have to break the law to do a good thing, and when caught you will have to pay. Opportunity cost and all...

Please Note: I did say that the policy should be reevaluated because of this incident.

	15-10-2003 21:53									#30
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I don't believe in enforcing stupid laws.