17-10-2003 01:34									#1
	Vikings: the greates military Civ ? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well, we can assume the Vikings will be Seafaring and Militaristic. This means their galleys will cross 4 tiles a turn instead of 3, and they'll be able to send galleys through sea more easily.

Just imagine, at the beginning of the middle ages, what you could do with the Vikings if you beeline to invention to have the Berzrker:
- You have the most powerful medieval unit by far. It will remain useful even when riflemen will be around. You don't even need resources to build them
- Thanks to your boats, you'll have a greater mobility than the Civ you'll attack: an average foot soldier can walk 3 roaded tiles. An average galley/caravel loaded with Berzrekers can "walk" 4 tiles
- You can conquer cities very easily. And should the AI not have any fleet, your boats, and the wounded berzerkers there, don't risk anything.
- You start near the coast, so you'll have the opportunity to use this wonderful Berzerker-toy
- All this advantage lasts until there are serious defenders around, i.e Riflemen (who can still be challenged by berzerkers btw)

The Berzerker UU was already a fantastic asset for the Scandiavian player, as it virtually allowed to conquer a territory easily despite having a crappy empire to start with. With the new feudalism gov, it makes it even easier to build a serious army from a small empire. Combine that with the Golden Age that starts as soon as the first berserker wins, and any crappy empire becomes a fearsome warring machine.

I know I'll fear the Vikings from now on

	17-10-2003 01:48									#2
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you didn't fear them already? sheesh. play more MP.

	17-10-2003 02:53									#3
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You left out the new additional bonus for attacking from the sea.

	17-10-2003 03:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm You left out the new additional bonus for attacking from the sea.

Attacking from the sea has been made more powerful in Conquests ?

	17-10-2003 06:27									#5
	Re: Vikings: the greates military Civ ? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, we can assume the Vikings will be Seafaring and Militaristic.

Actually, I'm expecting them to be Hairy and Irritable......

	17-10-2003 06:34									#6
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...ghlight=marines

	17-10-2003 08:25									#7
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They sure as hell better not get 12 attack on amphibious assaults. They are good enough as it is.

God save us from the Vikings

	17-10-2003 08:53									#8
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However, WarpStorm's link to CF indicates that only the following civs will have seafaring as a trait:

quote: CIVILIZATIONS (7): * Byzantine Leader : Theodora UU : Dromon (Greek fire throwing ship), 2.1.3 (cost = 30), lethal sea bombardment Traits : Scientific and Seafaring * Dutch Leader : William of Orange UU : Swiss Mercenary Pikeman 1.4.1 pike replacement Traits : Agricultural and Seafaring * Hittites Leader : Mursilis UU : Three-man chariot Traits : * Incas Leader : ? UU : Chasqui scout Traits : Expansionist ? (<-- scout) * Mayas Leader : ? UU : Javelineer Traits : * Portuguese Leader : Prince Henry (= the Navigator) UU : Carrack (replaces caravel) : 2.2.3 (cost = 40) enhanced attack and cannot sink in sea Traits : Expansionist, Seafaring * Sumerians Leader : Gilgamesh UU : Enkidu Warrior Traits :

No mention has been made of Vikings (Scandanavians).

	17-10-2003 08:55									#9
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Arent those just all the new civs coming in Conquests?

	17-10-2003 08:58									#10
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Ah, I think you are right Nuclear. Sorry for my confusion.

	17-10-2003 14:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV They sure as hell better not get 12 attack on amphibious assaults. They are good enough as it is.

LouLong's feature list says "double attack for seaborne attack : marines". Maybe this effect wil be limited to marines.

If not, I know with whom I'll play.

	17-10-2003 14:17									#12
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quote: LouLong's feature list says "double attack for seaborne attack : marines". Maybe this effect wil be limited to marines.

Or, worse yet(?), they might have it also apply to Berserkers, but halve their attack strength so they have a six ONLY with amphibious assaults.

	17-10-2003 15:57									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe quote: LouLong's feature list says "double attack for seaborne attack : marines". Maybe this effect wil be limited to marines. Or, worse yet(?), they might have it also apply to Berserkers, but halve their attack strength so they have a six ONLY with amphibious assaults.

Well, that would be too sad for the Vikings, because their UU rules on land as well. But I think it would be more balancing. Now, the Berzerker should be defnitely cheaper if such happened.

	17-10-2003 16:16									#14
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The Amphibious attack bonus is only 25%, not double, and the Beserk stats haven't otherwise been changed.

	17-10-2003 16:27									#15
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so the Berzerkers do have that 25% attack bonus?

if so, I'll mod them right away to make them weaker, cause it seems quite unbalancing.

	17-10-2003 16:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus so the Berzerkers do have that 25% attack bonus? if so, I'll mod them right away to make them weaker, cause it seems quite unbalancing.

Why not try the game as is first...? They have been play-testing the thing, you know, and I'm sure they had balance in mind while doing so.

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich However, WarpStorm's link to CF indicates that only the following civs will have seafaring as a trait:

Loulong's list only contains changes that have appeared in previews. For instance, the English being Commercial/Seafaring is included in his info. The Viking traits, on the other hand, are still speculation.

	17-10-2003 17:38									#17
	Re: Re: Vikings: the greates military Civ ? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Actually, I'm expecting them to be Hairy and Irritable......

Gunter

	17-10-2003 18:05									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus so the Berzerkers do have that 25% attack bonus? if so, I'll mod them right away to make them weaker, cause it seems quite unbalancing.

Not if you take their shield cost into account.

	17-10-2003 20:49									#19
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What is 25% of 6? Do they round up or down?

	17-10-2003 23:08									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV What is 25% of 6? Do they round up or down?

I haven't seen evidence of defense combat values being rounded, so why would attack values?

	18-10-2003 00:35									#21
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So Berzerkers doing an Amphibious asault would have something like 7.5?

	18-10-2003 01:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV So Berzerkers doing an Amphibious asault would have something like 7.5?

Better on the attack than modern infantry

They have big axes right??

* statuperfect imagines the brits doing the D-day assault high on mushrooms swinging poleaxes

	18-10-2003 01:35									#23
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Berserkers would be only 75% as good as marines. Marines are also available to anyone (when the timing is right).

	18-10-2003 21:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Better on the attack than modern infantry They have big axes right?? * statuperfect imagines the brits doing the D-day assault high on mushrooms swinging poleaxes

So thats why the world wars dragged on. We should have used big axes! Please tell me there isnt a huge imbalance like that in the game

	18-10-2003 21:16									#25
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Vikings are good on offense. Real good. On a map where navies are useful, they are awesome on offense. They are also expensive and stink on defense. They can take an area but they can't hold it by themselves.