17-10-2003 19:21									#1
	As Bolivian unrest grows, I have to ask the question:Where is the International Left? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusInt...sp?reg=AMERICAS

So?

	17-10-2003 19:24									#2
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Why the outrage over exporting natural gas?

	17-10-2003 19:25									#3
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one of my most lefty college friends is there doing volunteer work in Cochabamba as we speak...

DD: Because the country will get saddled with yet more debt to pay for it and social services will be cut to meet debt payments and the average person won't see any more the money made off the export.

	17-10-2003 19:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko DD: Because the country will get saddled with yet more debt to pay for it and social services will be cut to meet debt payments and the average person won't see any more the money made off the export.

1) I saw no mention of the IMF or loans in the article.
2) The average person would actually be worse off if de Lozada took no action to lift the country out of the economic crapper Bolivia is currently in. So what would you suggest6 instead of marketing the countries valuable natural resources? The drug trade?

	17-10-2003 19:47									#5
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Legalized drugs in South America?? The CIA would be all over them before you could say 'Sandinista'.

Are your friends out of the 'hotspots' areas Boshko?

Is it pretty much 'business as usual' as far as life in Bolivia?

	17-10-2003 19:47									#6
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Besides, they're exporting it through a Chilean port...and that just makes the Bolivians remember that they lost their landaccess to the ocean to that same country...

In any case...the international left has clearly already given this movement its blessing...in practice, now they can do whatever the **** they want, and "everything will be ok" for the left....

	17-10-2003 19:51									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Legalized drugs in South America?? The CIA would be all over them before you could say 'Sandinista'.

I cold say Sandanista, but why would I? The only thing they had to do with the drug trade was be the victims of a terrorist organization funded by it, namely, the Contras.

	17-10-2003 20:12									#8
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I meant in terms of 'native' governments overthrown.

	18-10-2003 00:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Legalized drugs in South America?? The CIA would be all over them before you could say 'Sandinista'.

Do I need to put smilies at the end of my points not intended to be taken seriously?

	18-10-2003 00:11									#10
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This whole situation is bad news. I wonder what the left's substantial plans are once they chase this guy from office.

Edit: Anyway, I think selling the gas is a good idea. Bolivia has a lot more than it needs, so why not sell some gas?

	18-10-2003 00:16									#11
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Their plans? To take control of the government probably.

I don't understand why selling something that you don't need to someone who is willing to pay for it is bad.

	18-10-2003 01:28									#12
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It seems that the president is about to resign his charge. Sorry can´t find it in english www.lanacion.com and MZO (english thread) http://central.masterzen.net/index.php?showtopic=1513
They say that he is about to give a press conference about it later today.

	18-10-2003 02:00									#13
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Well he's gone...and probably his government (and anything resembling representative democracy) will also fall, unless some totally unforeseen moderation affects the leaders of the protest movement....nope, they'll probably just see this as their chance to take power.

	18-10-2003 02:11									#14
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Interesting.

	18-10-2003 03:13									#15
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Q:Where is the International Left?
A:Where they are? Well, they are everywhere. That's 'cause they are international!

	18-10-2003 03:16									#16
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Damn smartass. Go sit in the corner, and think very well about what you've just said.

	18-10-2003 03:17									#17
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Yes, sir. I'm so sorry! Really, I am.

	18-10-2003 03:32									#18
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Sorry, I won't spam my own thread any further.

It seems that backpackers from all over the world are trying to get en masse out of the country.

	18-10-2003 04:27									#19
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Bolivia has had a very strong peasant based protest movement for about 50 years. In 1954, they actually overthrew the government. The military overthrew that about twelve years later, stablishing a rather ferocious dictatorship, which was replaced one after another until we got to the Cocaine Coup fo Hugo Banzer (of Klaus Barbie fame).

Since then, and even before, the peasants haven't been shy about marhcing onthe capital and making their feelins known. I met the leader of the peasant women's union. Very tiny, small, powerful woman, old, and tough.

The liberal Spanish professors at my university brought her to speak, and she scared the bejeezuz out of them with her stories. Peasants don't **** around politically. She had expected to come to the U.S. to go on a tour to raise money for her union, but the liberals packed her on the first plane back to Bolivia. Stupid liberals. We tried to rescue her, but were unable to do so.

	18-10-2003 04:32									#20
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quote: I don't understand why selling something that you don't need to someone who is willing to pay for it is bad.

The peasants did not think they would get enough benefits out of the contracts signed: ie, they were going to get shortchanged by the buyers. Anyone can understand that.

But we must not let the popular will command!

The guy lost support the second he called the army out and people begun to get shot.

Interestingly enough, has anyone started any threads about the recent elections in Azerbaijan and the violence that followed?

	18-10-2003 04:33									#21
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Hopefully they manage to do *something* truly worthwhile and lasting for their people then this time, and not just nationalize and expropiate everything in sight and gain themselves an embargo, at the very least....

	18-10-2003 04:44									#22
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With any luck, they'll take back their utilities from the multinationals, or at least get some much needed regulation to save their economy from being utterly gutted.

	18-10-2003 06:44									#23
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I bet the minute the Lefties start wining in an election there, Shrub is gonna send the CIA to rig the elections to please his corporate masters. Dare I say Contra #2?

	18-10-2003 07:42									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I bet the minute the Lefties start wining in an election there, Shrub is gonna send the CIA to rig the elections to please his corporate masters. Dare I say Contra #2?

I don't know, the Chavez thing was bungled (if the CIA rumours are true about that - which is debatable).