07-12-2003 08:02									#91
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Kody's comment:

quote: If the CC trades for initative before we get ecological engineering then I wouldn't be opposed to it. Basically, initative would cut down another possible tech trade between the university and the pirates. While we would have to worry about amphibous troops and faster transports, I feel the resulting increased tech costs will increase the likelyhood that the drones and the hive will be able to get to MMI first. The lastest news I've heard on the hive game is ecological engineering in 2 turns. So the time frame that such a trade can occur in is rapidly decreasing. Other techs we are interested are Secrets of the Human Brain and Neural Grafting. Explain the reason for wanting Neural Grafting is that the hive wishes to build significantly more formers and units with clean reactors. Also hint that the Hive is after more SPs (we're not really after the neural amplifer, but others would believe it the way we grabbed those other SPs). __________________________________________________ __ Before making any offers it would be a good idea to check what the pirates are researching and whether they have done any trading with the university. Also it would be a good idea to find out what the university is researching and whether they have done any trading with the university. This is to check threat level in their research beelines. Here are two suggestions as offers for the cycon. 1. Get the cycon to trade initative to the university for ecological engineering or environmental economics (honghu you probably need to check the infiltration data). We will give them ecological engineering or environmental economics in return. 2. Get the cycon to trade applied physics for secrets of the human brain. If the cycon agrees to research neural grafting for us, we agree to a research package. That involves prototypes and neural grafting for 2 restriction lifting techs. * we'll immediately give either gene splicing or ecological engineering, in exchange they launch a cursier and an amphibous unit so we'll get the prototypes. * When they start research neural grafting, and we have the prototype units, we'll give then another restriction lifting tech. In return they give us neural grafting when they obtain it. Seperate from that research package. * If they start researching bioengineering, we'll give them a third restriction lifting tech, and when they finish bioengineering they'll give that to us. They may complain about being 1 or 2 restriction lifting techs behind us. However, you can point out with what we're doing they're owing us an important tech ahead of time for most of the time, then they may quiet down. __________________________________________________ __ Getting the cycon to research neural grafting for us is a two edged sword. However, I believe the benefits would outweigh the risks. By them agreeing to this we bind the cycon in their research and tech trading significantly. This means there much less room for cooperating between the university or pirates. This reduction in diplomatic contact means that any future diplomacy between the other factions will take longer to develop. In additional, after obtaining neural grafting we'll be in the position to get MMI fast thus accelerating and improving the chances that either the drones or ourselves will be able to obtain the cloudbase and cyborg factory. I have a suspicion that the cycon might be going for air power themselves and this could divert them from that goal. Giving the university applied physics is bad in that it speeds up their research towards AIR power. However, I believe the pirates already have applied physics. The university might find a way to extract applied physics from the pirates. Again tech trading between factions increases the communication and trust between them. On the downside, if we lose the cycon to the university or if there's the possibility they're only pretending to be our friends. Then the university may be able to get neural grafting from the cycon and be that much closer to MMI. This less useful for the university than us as it only jumps them 1 tech up as they already have secrets of the human brain. However, in the hive's case, getting neural grafting allows us to skip secrets of the human brain and social pysch, thus jumping us 3 techs up the tech tree. Unfortunately I haven't done a personality analysis on all the new members that seem to be running the cycon now (I think impaler is democratic humanitarian as I was watching him for recruitment). Basically I was fairly certain that the old cycon members wouldn't betray the hive unless treated them badly. They lacked the deviousness to execute such a plan. I don't have enough knowledge about the new cycon to say what they might down.

	07-12-2003 08:04									#92
	Put an end to popups!

Another Kody's suggestion:

quote: Just read all the dipolmatic posts to the cycon. I would apologise for delays and just give them the infiltration data of the pirates for free. Saying sorry for the delays and saying that this infiltration data is for the patience they've shown in dealing with the hive. My opinion is that information should be freely given among allies and until the cycon get in the way of the hive-drone alliance we should treat them as allies. (ofcourse I'm not in the hive anymore so someone in the hive should decide whether to take the advice I've given) So... I was correct in my assessment that the hive talks big about restructuring, but doesn't do anything. I think I'll have a week or two of holidays coming up in Janurary where I can help out some more. I'll see If I can recuit some useful people. Sorry the ones I did recuit turned out useless.

	07-12-2003 08:05									#93
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My reply to Kody;

quote: About recruitment. Thanks for your recruitment effort we are having some people at least interested and dacole is actually really doing a lot of work. I was a little exaggerating in message to CC so that they will be more understanding. I have not given too much thought on your proposals but because of time limit I am going to post your proposals in the Hive and if nobody responses I will give it to the CC as the official answer. You know there are times that I really wish you were here with me. At least we will have each other to talk to.

	07-12-2003 13:45									#94
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Sorry I had to ask Kody and dacole to help me with this because I'm really dying from all the work that I have to do.

Kody's message to Cycon:

quote: Honghu has been busy with work and has asked me to take care of this issue. She says that by next monday she will be able to fulfil her duties again. The infiltration should be on it's way as I type. As was stated earlier the pirates are in a non-aggression research and trade pact with the hive. This means that trading of infiltration data is not actually covered in the pact. However, it could be viewed as a betrayal and definitely it is breaking the pirate's trust to some degree. When you accept this gift understand that to some of the hive it is not a inconsequntial action. Due to my own views on the issue I've asked that the price tag for the information to be removed. This issue shouldn't be decided by price, rather by where the hive loyalties actually lie. On another issue, I don't understand why a pact needs to wait until the the hive and cycon can pact in the game. Currently, I feel that the hive and cycon have not reached the level of trust to permi-pact, but certainly enough to pact without having to announce it to the rest of world. In the meantime I will prepare a premilary trade document.

	07-12-2003 13:46									#95
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Also this:

quote: Sorry I was going to write a proposal. However, I just looked at the university SE settings. They're pop booming. I'm not sure if my original trading suggestions are a good idea anymore, as when they finish their booming their tech rate is going to scary. I'm very worried that minute mirage will be able to do for the university what I did for the Hive. Here was what I wrote to honghu as trading advice. If you want you can try and take what I've written and come up with your own proposal. At the moment I'm uncertain how to proceed as trading with the university is dangerous especially with a souped up tech rate that will become apparent after pop boom. __________________________________________________ ________ ################ Advice I originally gave to HongHu ####### If the CC trades initative for ecological engineering before we get ecological engineering then I wouldn't be opposed to it. Basically, initative would cut down another possible tech trade between the university and the pirates. While we would have to worry about amphibous troops and faster transports they'll still be competeing against the advantages the pirates and the cycon have on the seas. I hope the resulting increased tech costs for the university will offset the benefits. The lastest news I've heard on the hive game is ecological engineering in 2 turns. So the time frame that such a trade can occur in is rapidly decreasing. Other techs we are interested are Secrets of the Human Brain and Neural Grafting. Neural Grafting is needed on the path to getting Bio-engineering as the hive wishes to build significantly more formers and units with clean reactors. Getting another SP, the neural amplifer would be nice too. More importantly Bio-engineering gives that SP which gives us less drones when running under planned. _________________________________________ Before making any offers it would be a good idea to check what the pirates are researching and whether they have done any trading with the university. Also it would be a good idea to find out what the university is researching and whether they have done any trading with either the cycon or the drones. This is to check threat level in their research beelines. Here are two suggestions as offers for the cycon. 1. Get the cycon to trade initative to the university for ecological engineering or environmental economics (honghu you probably need to check the infiltration data). We will give them ecological engineering or environmental economics assuming we don't already have the tech they get. 2. Get the cycon to trade applied physics for secrets of the human brain. If the cycon agrees to research neural grafting for us, we agree to a research package. That involves prototypes and neural grafting for 2 restriction lifting techs. * we'll immediately give either gene splicing or ecological engineering, in exchange they launch a cursier and an amphibous unit so we'll get the prototypes. * When they start research neural grafting, and we have the prototype units, we'll give then another restriction lifting tech. In return they give us neural grafting when they obtain it. Seperate from that research package. * If they start researching bioengineering for us, we'll give them a third restriction lifting tech, and when they finish bioengineering they'll give that to us. They may complain about possibly being 1 or 2 restriction lifting techs behind us. However, you can point out with what we're doing they're owing us an important tech ahead of time for most of the time.

	08-12-2003 01:02									#96
	Chat between Drogue and me Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Drogue: ehllo
Drogue: hello*
Drogue: do you have a minute?
HongHu: sure
HongHu: what's up
HongHu: is CC turn played yet?
HongHu: btw I tried the email address you gave me (Maniac) it says that he isn't using msn
Drogue: im a bit unsure, as I havent seen all the communique, but we were wondering if theres been a little mess up with the information? we appear too be missing 1st part of the military stats data
Drogue: really? hmmm... hes added on mine : (
Drogue: [edit out]
HongHu: ok I'm trying agin now
HongHu: hmmm it's done
Drogue: tass posted the first and second part of build data, and twice the 2nd part of the military stats data
HongHu: thanks
Drogue: thats ok : )
HongHu: tass?
Drogue: Tassadar
Drogue: Voltaire asked him
HongHu: why posted in your forum?
HongHu: oh I see
HongHu: I didn't know voltaire was gonna ask him to do it
Drogue: apparent the deal has been struck, and we are to give you some ec for it, though not decided yet
HongHu: I know dacole was doing the report
HongHu: what Hive really wants I think
HongHu: is not money
Drogue: units?
HongHu: is the trust between our two factions
HongHu: that too lol
Drogue: thats easily accomplished. Ive told you way more than any other faction has any idea about, I am the EAF atm, and I have no problem with trust,and disclosing info to the Hive
HongHu: some of us are worried that CC may not be as close to us as we are before
HongHu: problem is you are not playing actively now
Drogue: we are. I havent been as active lately, but oiut Hive Diplomacy thread has nothing but praises
HongHu: and we don't know the new member's attitude toward us
Drogue: well.. I am a lot mroe active than I was a week ago
HongHu: wow
HongHu: oh that's good!
HongHu: I am a bit relieved
HongHu: I have been really trying to squeeze time
HongHu: so that CC is not going to be mad with the Hive
Drogue: Impaler is pretty pro hive.MWIA hasnt really said much on the issue
Drogue: not at all
HongHu: ahh it's so good to know
HongHu: it'll break my heart if we drift away
Drogue: awww... likewise : )
HongHu: we can negotiate more with trade later
HongHu: I'd like to talk to you guys more about eco eng and env eco and stuff
HongHu: but not now lol
Drogue: the issue with Pacts, is regarding PEACE. If I can say this off the record, I have read bits about pact discussions, and the current thinking is that by 2152, we should have our PEACE issues and defenses sorted enough that we dont care if they have our infiltration information
HongHu: that's great1
HongHu: !
Drogue: BTW, weve found PUT, we have a laser cruiser next to one of their bases : )
HongHu: at Hive the sentiment is if we do pact peace may get mad and it's ok if it has to be that way : )
HongHu: that's off record too
HongHu: wow
HongHu: lol
HongHu: good job
HongHu: you're gonna attack?
HongHu: hey btw what are you researching? if you can't tell that's ok
Drogue: not yet, though this is an issue. We like to fight a war on 1 front only, however. There is discussion atm about PUT. If we got to war with PEACE, will PUT join them against us
Drogue: I have no idea to be honest : $
HongHu: lol
Drogue: However, we may have Eco Eng coming in a turn or two
Drogue: unless you have it?
HongHu: not sure if maniac got me when I tell him univ was reseaching env eco
HongHu: and about to get it next turn
HongHu: we will have eco eng in 2 turns
Drogue: yes, we are talking about trading with them. They want App Phys, whioch people are in favour of, but Im a little apprehensive
HongHu: we are behind CC in turn playing that means 1 turn for you
HongHu: as I said in the embassy I'm not fit to give advise on military (I'm really bad at war : blush) but I think it may be better if you could trade it with something else like init (that's kody's idea actually)
HongHu: if you can get eco eng from them i say by all means get it
HongHu: and quick
HongHu: so that you can give it to us next turn before we finish it
Drogue: We were thinking that, but theyve requested App Phys specifically. Now, its of no use on its own, since lasers wone be much good to them yet, and everyone has better defences (bar peace : D)
HongHu: then we immediately switch to env eco
Drogue: exactly our thinking
HongHu: and finish it the next turn and give it to you
HongHu: I think we actually offered AP to them at one time earlier
HongHu: and they never replied
HongHu: guess they really hated us
HongHu: you still want gene splicing?
Drogue: hmmmm... I will try to speed it along so we can trade with you : )
Drogue: and yes! : D
HongHu: yes time is of essense
HongHu: if we miss one turn we may have finished the tech ourselves
HongHu: and then can't do switch and trade
HongHu: any discussion regarding gene splicing with prototype?
HongHu: as soon as you start to build the unit for us and let us know I would ask them give you the tech
HongHu: don't have to wait until you finish
HongHu: but you may need to give me a positive confirmation on it
Drogue: tech for unit? Ill ask. ATM we have much of our production used for the military build up, as we want to bring attack forward to 2150 if we can
HongHu: we don't have any polls on all these
Drogue: likewise
HongHu: but I don't think that's going to matter any more
HongHu: for really there are these many people who cares any more
HongHu: that tech for unit thing was proposed long ago
HongHu: but I think we still want it for we didn't want the init tech so we said it is equivalent with a tech
Drogue: thats what i thought, I will look at production, but I cant see us being able to atm : ( We really have a production shortage
HongHu: hmmm
HongHu: will some ecs help?
HongHu: I don't know if Hive can spare ecs for that
HongHu: or maybe Hive produce something for you?
HongHu: we have to explore all possibilities don't we
HongHu: well please do give it some more thought
HongHu: we can talk more after Monday
HongHu: I will have much more time after my filing
Drogue: very true. I will talk with them. Theyve been looking for soemthing to discuss
HongHu: ok. I gtg do some more work
HongHu: so ttyl
Drogue: ok. Have fun : )
Drogue: ttyl
HongHu: lol thanks

Last edited by Snowflake on 08-12-2003 at 01:11

	08-12-2003 01:05									#97
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Message from Impalor

quote: The Cybernetic Conciousness expresses its highest level of Gratitude for the Hives cooperation. We have rapidly assimilated the data you provided and will begin discussing our dept to your, it is our current intention to pay with Energy Credits, though as far as my data banks say this sum has not yet been desided. Rest assured it will be generous. A formula should be negotiated for a lum-sum or yearly instalment pakage that will compensate the Hive for its invaluable assistance.

	08-12-2003 03:35									#98
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sounds great, the Cybos are getting real good friends of us!

	09-12-2003 03:45									#99
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PM by Drogue:

quote: Greetings HongHu Could you possibly answer a question? When did you say that you will get Eco Eng? We are trying to deal with PUT for it, so we can trade it with yourselves, and we need to know when we need to have it by. Many thanks, - Drogue, EAF of the CyCon.

	09-12-2003 03:46									#100
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My reply:

quote: Well I just filed my filing and finished my late lunch 10 minutes ago. Yeay! I tried the chat room but wasn't able to get in I guess because of the firewall. Otherwise I would like to chat with your guys. Anyway, in 2148 turn, we are 2 turns away from getting eco eng. So that means 2150 we will get it. That means you have to offer it to us in turn 2149 for us to get it in turn 2150 if I'm thinking correctly. Please let me know the result. Oh and also, regarding prototyped units. I just re-read the chat between us last night and realized that you are actually planning to go to war with PEACE 2150. If this is the case then please don't worry for building anything for us. In fact please don't hesitate if you see anything that we can do for you. Also later when you are able to do prototype unit production for the Hive, we wouldn't ask you to gift us with the unit, we will take it and then return it to you after we get the design. Please let me know if I could be any further assistance. Comrade HongHu

	09-12-2003 08:40									#101
	Support Apolyton

Message from Drogue. Lots info in it. Comrades, let's start some discussions please.

quote: quote: Anyway, in 2148 turn, we are 2 turns away from getting eco eng. So that means 2150 we will get it. That means you have to offer it to us in turn 2149 for us to get it in turn 2150 if I'm thinking correctly. Please let me know the result. We have sent an offer to PUT, with a sweetener if they offer it next turn, we can then counter offer and accept in our turn, and they accept in their 2150 turn. This means we will have it in 2150, and we are prepared to offer it pre-accepted, so that you will have it in your 2150 turn, since you are after us. That means you'll get it, can switch techs, and gain Env Econ, and can transmit Gene Splicing to us Hopefully PUT will agree. quote: Oh and also, regarding prototyped units. I just re-read the chat between us last night and realized that you are actually planning to go to war with PEACE 2150. If this is the case then please don't worry for building anything for us. In fact please don't hesitate if you see anything that we can do for you. Also later when you are able to do prototype unit production for the Hive, we wouldn't ask you to gift us with the unit, we will take it and then return it to you after we get the design. That changes a lot I will post that in our forum, and will get back to you quote: Please let me know if I could be any further assistance. There are a couple of things. If we we're to offer Eco Eng pre-accepted in 2150, and agree to Pact at the latest in 2152 (hopefully before, but depending on war), would you be able to give us the infiltration data showing what garrison PEACE has in each of it's bases ASAP? Also, we are a little worried that when we attack PEACE, PUT will join in on their side against us. While we do not wish to ask you to engage in a war with PEACE that you are not ready to, with your dislike of the PUT, would you be able to go to war with PUT, if they were to declare on us. We may be able to take on both, but knowing you are an ally against PUT would help us concentrate on PEACE until that is won. Basically, and this is very tentative, an agreement that if the PUT attacks either of us, we both declare on them, and thus we fight against them together. We can take on PEACE fine, but are trying to scare PUT out of declaring on us when we attack PEACE. Many thanks for the support I hope we can get the trade through. As long as PUT agree, I think it's sealed, and we've offered them a good deal. I hope that in 2-4 turns, we can greet each other as Pactmates, and PEACE will be smoldering remains - Drogue

	09-12-2003 08:42									#102
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I need to get an official response to them to straighten all the issues out. We don't want something get messed up because of communication.

	09-12-2003 09:31									#103
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I propose a deal like the following:

1. Gene Splicing for HGB and Neural Grafting
2. Eco Eng for Env Eco
3. We provide all peace military info to CC
4. We agree if uni declare war on CC we declare war on uni, with the understanding we don't have the ability to really attack the uni
5. If needed we could donate couple units or some ecs to help CC with war

What do you guys think?

	09-12-2003 10:28									#104
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Greetings Chairman Voltaire, I would like to express my sincere and deepest thanks for the screenshots of PEACE you uploaded to our factional information network. After years of inquiries to HongHu, Kody, Jamski etc we were overly delighted that one PM to you was enough to receive the screenshots. As a consequence your approval rating within the Consciousness has increased with an almost infinite incline lately, and is approaching no less than one hundred percent! We did notice a few anomalies though in the screenshots you provided. For instance we have received two identical screenshots of the PEACE Military Nexus, displaying only the lower half. As a consequence we do not know the nature of 6 PEACE land units and 13 non-combat units. Would these be innocent scout patrols and formers, or could they be chaos rovers and probe teams itching to invade us? We do not know. Also, though we are already overly happy with the information you were willing to provide us, we would be most delighted if you would be willing to provide us with information on the PEACE F4 Garrison screen. This is in many ways useful information for us. Just to give one example, we could hopefully derive the location of the two PEACE Party Poopers, if these are in bases at least. I believe it is rather crucial for both of us that PEACE is unable to steal certain of our technologies. If they could acquire these and for example transmit them to their ally the PUT, it could effect the power balance between you and PUT. We don't want to see that happen and would rather keep certain technologies within the Consciousness and its allies such as you. Have you already thought what you would desire in return for the information you provided? In any case, due to this information, our security situation has much improved and as a consequence we should be able to pact in-game much sooner with you than earlier expected. Greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Second Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

	09-12-2003 13:34									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yep. *grins*

-Jam

	09-12-2003 21:46									#106
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The following proposal has not be delivered to the CC, would like to have some feedbacks quick. Thanks!

quote: Hive CyCon Diplomatic Proposal Based on the following information of facts: 1. Hive will complete Ecological Engineering in turn 2150 2. CyCon is planning going into war against PEACE in turn 2150 3. PUT is currently researching Environmental Economics and is expected to finish it soon 4. The game is now PEACE turn 2148, it will be followed by Drones 2149, before it is Hive’s 2149 turn, and followed by PUT 2149 turn and CC 2149 turn. The Hive proposed the following trading / cooperations with the CyCons 1. Trade Ecological Engineering with Environmental Economics: CyCon will try to obtain ecological engineering from the PUT. If confirmation that such a trade is secured reaches the Hive before the Hive 2149 turn, the Hive will lower its tech research rate so that it will not complete ecological engineering in turn 2150. Then in CyCon 2149 turn, CyCon perform the trade with PUT. In CC 2150 turn CC will complete the trade with PUT and give Eco Eng to the Hive preaccepted. In Hive 2151 turn, Hive will accept the trade, switch to Env Eco and finish it. In the same turn Hive will give Env Eco to CC pre-accepted. 2. Trade Gene Splicing with Secrete of Human Brain and Neural Grafting The Hive realize that the CC is in need of Gene Splicing and do not have the ability of producing prototyped units for the Hive in the near future. Therefore the Hive bring you an alternative proposal for trading of Gene Splicing with Secrete of Human Brain and Neural Grafting. If CyCon could try to obtain SHB from the PUT (if CC doesn’t have the tech already) the Hive will send CC Gene Splicing pre-accepted once the tech is available for trade. In the same turn CC will send SHB to Hive. CC will research Neural Grafting next and give it to Hive upon completion. 3. Upon a more definitive discloser of the CC’s war plan the Hive will deliver the PEACE infiltration information that are desired by CC in its entirety. 4. The Hive agrees if PUT declares war on CC it will declare war on PUT, with the understanding that this is more of a gesture than a real was since the Hive currently don't have the attacking technology and units to wage a real war. If the CC will provide information regarding what attacking tech and/or unit it could trade with the Hive, the Hive will be receptive to discussions regarding further cooperation. 5. If needed by the CC the Hive will donate some units or some energy credits to help CC with its war effort. The Hive hopes this package demonstrates our intention of a deeper relationship and cooperation with the CyCons. We believe this proposal is mutually beneficial for both factions and hope that the CyCons will prove this at the earliest possible time. As it is now, time is of the essential. For the deal to go through and bring the anticipated results, decisions have to be made quick and details have to be conducted assiduously. If this cooperation goes through, we believe it will significantly increase the strength of both our factions.

	09-12-2003 21:47									#107
	Get a bigger avatar today!

What we will gain from this:
1. We will finish restriction lifting beeline
2. We will gain SHB and NG toward beeline to MMI
The other terms are mainly sweeteners that are added so that CC will feel worthy to agree to reseach NG for us

What CC gains from this:
1. They will get all restriction lifing techs (vs only one from PUT)
2. They will get PEACE infiltration info for their war

	09-12-2003 21:50									#108
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

One thing still need to be checked. That is if we lower ec allocation to reseach we will be able to delay reseach to 2151. I have to do so after 10 hours. So if somebody have time before that could you please check this? Appreciated!

	09-12-2003 22:24									#109
	Got spare money?

Message from Impaler:

quote: Greatings Hivarian Diplomate HongHu. The Conciouness central trade computers have completed anaysis of tenative tec/pact trading between our factions which may alow you to get both Eco Eng and a second tec (Bio-Engingering or Environmental Economics) and a Pact with us by 2152. Would you care to discusse it further in our MIRC chat room #cycon?

	09-12-2003 22:25									#110
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My reply

quote: I have tried to enter the chat room but was not able to get in. I believe it is because the firework here at work. Do you have any suggestions? I also can't use MSN here. So the options that we can talk is really limited. In fact the only one thing I see we can do is to post in the embassy voy forum. I know it is not a good place for chatting but I don't have any other suggestions. I was hoping to talk to you guys last night through MSN but wasn't able to find you. I have also finalized a proposal to you and posted it in Hive forum. I was planning to give it to you this afternoon. Now I'm thinking maybe I will give you the draft and let you see how this is going with the understanding that it is still not officially approved. I will copy the proposal to you, Manic and Drogue.

	09-12-2003 22:28									#111
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: I have received communication from Function Impaler. To facilitate the discussion I am sending you a draft proposal from the Hive. Please note that the following proposal has not been officially approved. (Proposal omitted, it is the same as I posted above.)

	09-12-2003 23:01									#112
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, although I donīt like telling them we cannot go to war now (Why should they send us the techs then, we canīt do anything if they fool us) I like the idea of getting two techs instead of one with just one year delay.

So I would approve the proposal.

	09-12-2003 23:04									#113
	Remove this text

It is a good point although I think it is too their benefit not to cheat on us. For they would need to send us eco eng pre accepted and relying us to give them the env eco to them next turn. If they cheat us on the other trade (Gene vs SHB and NG) then we only lose NG and is not that worse off.

	09-12-2003 23:04									#114
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It is a good point although I think it is to their benefit not to cheat on us. For they would need to send us eco eng pre accepted and relying us to give them the env eco to them next turn. If they cheat us on the other trade (Gene vs SHB and NG) then we only lose NG and is not that worse off.

	09-12-2003 23:04									#115
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu I have tried to enter the chat room but was not able to get in. I believe it is because the firework here at work.

I have heard about the famous Chinese fireworks, but I didnīt know they also jam internet transmissions...

I think you mean a firewall (Or you have a really great job )

	09-12-2003 23:05									#116
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

yes we are having fireworks in celebration of the completion of the filing.

	09-12-2003 23:11									#117
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I forgot to post this one from earlier today. Posted by Impalor in the embassy.

quote: The Hive might be able to delay its research by shifting nearly all energy to Econ/Pych so as to generate no points. If we can get a deal form Uni and we recive some form of Confirmation before the Hive plays its 49 turn then the Hive can slow down research in 49, then the Cycons recive Eco Eng in 49 and sends it to the Hive. Then in 50 the hive will be very close to but not yet completing Eco Eng and can successfull tec switch and grab another tec, return energy alocations to normal and get its next tec likly in 51. This will all depend on us getting the Uni trade agreement before the Hive lowers research in 49. It would help us know how hard we can Bargin if the Hive could inform us of what Uni is currently researching.

	09-12-2003 23:12									#118
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A second part from Impalor posted a couple minutes ago.

quote: Here is the second stage Cycon Plan, hopefully to be melded with what ever Plan HongHu has come up with (who knows maybe its the same thing as I haven't seen her's yet). Note this plan is not official. We are eager for all of the things in this plan to happen but I have not run the specifics past the rest of the Conciusness yet. Hive 49 - Lowers its tec acumulation enough to delay Eco Eng untill 2152 Uni 49 - Offers Cycon Eco Eng (unaccepted) Cycon 49 - Counter offers our pacage which is still being negotiated, then accept the deal. Hive 50 - dose NOT get Eco Eng as they otherwise would have Uni 50 - Accepts our offer Cycon 50 - Recive Eco Eng from Uni and send it to Hive Pre Accepted Hive 51 - Recives Eco Eng and raises it reserach back to normal rates, Switches to a new reserach Goal and completes it next turn. Hive 52 - Completes reserch in next tec and sends it and a Pact offer pre accepted to us. Cycon 52 - We accept Pact and the tec. This gets us a lot of what we want, Hive can have an extra tec, the Pact and we get Eco Eng and the tec you researched (which I asume would be Environmental Economics). Uni only recives Aplied Physics (and we ofcorse wont be discussing the Hive portion of the trade with them, only the Cycon-Uni portions). We realize that you basicaly loss 2 turns worth of research but in exchange you get a whole extra tec which easily translates to many turns of advancment. Thus we would be sending Eco Eng pre-accepted to you and then recipricate with the tec and Pact. This plan hinges on us getting Uni to offer in 49 and accept in 50. If that were to fall through (due to unreasonable requests on Uni's part) then we would ofcorse imediatly report that to you so you loss as little research as possible. Mean whial we will be squizing in the units you desired soon and sending them too you, most likly about when the pact is going through. You requested Cruisers and Amphibious Pods which will require 2 units (as cruiser cant have pods).

	09-12-2003 23:13									#119
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My reply

quote: Feedback: The first trade is almost exactly as what I proposed. My proposal require more assidulous work but will enable both of us getting the tech 1 turn early. For the second part regarding prototype units, the Hive has changed its mind upon knowing your situation (production aimed war preparation). We now believe that it is more benieficial to us to get the NG instead so that we could persue Bioengineering and get clean formers (and perhaps another SP ). The Hive is still in the builder path so the cruiser and pods are actually not very much in need right now.

	09-12-2003 23:39									#120
	Inflate your Upload Space

Message from Impaler:

quote: Cycon Comunicay Your proposals sound excelent HongHu, I belive the Conciousness will be eager to initiate the high level of cooperation you propose. One tecnical detail. You described the Hive completing its research in 2151 rather then 52 as I originaly proposed. Perhaps you know more about PBEM then I do. Is the diplomatic situation resolved first alowing the tec to be switched on the same turn that it is to complete? I assumed that if the tec is being completed in 51 then this would happen first and you would be left accepting a tec you now HAVE and our plans are moot (you seem to imply this is possible but it depends on the turn player doing things in the correct order). If this is infact possible then it is more advantagous to us both, but it puts a great responsibility on the turn player. Completion in 52 would be fool proof as on the turn you accept Eco Eng you are still 1 turn away from completion and incressing your output that turn just gets you WAY over the required points to complete. I will post your PM on our forums, I sugjest you also sugjest you place in on the Cycon/Hive forum and use duplicate or even Triplicate PM's to Manic and Drogue (who is tecnicaly our External Affairs Function, I dont want him to think I am usurping his position).