18-10-2003 03:04									#1
	RAZING CITIES in C3 Conquests Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What about an option in Civ 3 conquests to turn off the ability to raze cities, or else half the cities on the map could get erased by a stupid AI. How are we going to send relics to Jerusalem in the medieval scenario for example when the AI razes Jerusalem off the map in the 2nd turn??

Has anyone heard if this option will be included?

	18-10-2003 03:11									#2
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I never noticed a problem with mass global city razing.

	18-10-2003 03:40									#3
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I should be in there for scenarios right??

	18-10-2003 05:07									#4
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The more options in the editor the merrier. But even if Jerusalem could be raised I think the "victory point location" would remain.

	18-10-2003 06:41									#5
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Actually, I doubt that there would be the option to raze Jerusalem - since it should not be treated as a "regular" city in the scenario.

	18-10-2003 22:01									#6
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AI only mass razes when they are over the unmodifered OCN number. Even then, if there's a wonder, luxary resource, or stragetic resource near it, they won't raze it.

This currently has the effect that it's very difficult for the AI to get a domination victory except on the smaller maps.

As long as there's some luxary or stategric resource placed on or adejecent to Jerusalem, there's nothing to fear from the AI raizing it. It might however be an issue in a multiplayer game if another human player who's civ derives no advantage from owing it captures it. (Or captures it after it's lost most of the military units in the attack, and fears he can't hold it.)

	18-10-2003 22:07									#7
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Therefor, as Wittlich said, Jerusalem probably can´t be razed

	27-11-2003 17:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Fatwreck Therefor, as Wittlich said, Jerusalem probably can´t be razed

Oh yes, the AI CAN RAZE IT, I'm playing the scenario right now and the Byzantines have razed it. Now lie ruins next to the obelisk.

	27-11-2003 19:37									#9
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haha that really sucks... firaxis

	28-11-2003 03:30									#10
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Even if you raze (or the AI razes) Jerusalem, the obelisk is all that is needed to deliver the Holy Relics and gain the points.

I would also like to see an option to turn off raze cities in the editor.

	30-11-2003 09:52									#11
	Jerusalem razed Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So that means, in effect, that once Jerusalem has been razed, the game is won by the first person to race their relic to its former site, which is now completely unguarded?

I think that I'd rather have the effect be that razing Jerusalem means that no Victory Points can be scored for relics rather than turning the scenario into a boat race that the AI would never realize it should enter.

	30-11-2003 19:46									#12
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That tile won't be unguarded. It gives VPs for anyone who stations troops on it. The AI will have at least a token force there (probably not as much as if there was a city there, though).

FWIW, getting the relic bonus may not win the game for you. I know because I lost one where I did get a relic in and still lost because the Turks got so many points from conquering.

	30-11-2003 23:52									#13
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WarpStorm is right!
In Fall Of Rome, my first conquest game. All the obelisk was guarded by A.I. unit even if the city was Razed, the location continue to give point to the player who control them. So the A.I. try to have the control on the obelisk.

I often try to build a city or a fortress on the Obelisk and put some unit to defend them, but I'm asking myself if the A.I. try to build Fortress or City on them, so in this time he can have the defensive bonus?

See ya!

... Good work BreakAway for Civ3 Conquest I really enjoy the game and the scenario.

	01-12-2003 02:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm That tile won't be unguarded. It gives VPs for anyone who stations troops on it. The AI will have at least a token force there (probably not as much as if there was a city there, though). FWIW, getting the relic bonus may not win the game for you. I know because I lost one where I did get a relic in and still lost because the Turks got so many points from conquering.

the tile was guarded only by 2 byzantine spearmen when I cashed my 2 treasures ( mine and the French one ) something like 15 turns before the retirement, and about time since the byzantines were very near the 30000 VP required for victory ( I had 19000, so one more captured city and only my starting treasure would have been enough ). My crusade was ready for much more ( 6 galleys, 24 units - knights&crusaders ). I suppose I would have needed them if the Abbassids have kept Jerusalem. They need to code the AI to bring more powerful defensive & offensive units upon razed VP cities .

	02-12-2003 15:53									#15
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Just rebuild jerusalem. History shows many cities have been razed and rebuilt.

	02-12-2003 16:19									#16
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Unfortunately the AI won't rebuild jerusalim, and the human is often too far away.

I think this is the only scenario not razing cities might be helpful.

But an easier fix might be to put some resources near jerusalim.

Like has been said, it doesn't break the scenario by having jerusalim razed, but it does make it even easier for the human player.

	03-12-2003 11:52									#17
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Just rebuild jerusalem. History shows many cities have been razed and rebuilt.

How about rebuilding it well within your own territory after someone else razes it?