18-10-2003 23:16									#1
	Celebrations, anyone? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Since we have acquired the technology of tactics, there ought to be no more techs that we require to finish off the AIs.

However, there have been several proposals mentioned for our tax rate to reflect this new situation.

1. 60 tax, 40 lux, 0 science.

This would reflect our focus on the military and lack of new science required for conquest.

This would earn us 1009 gold/turn before celebrations.

Adjusting to maximise trade and initiate celebrations:

With 40 lux, only Atlanta, Ngome, Melkweg, Outpost, Apollonia, Kostunrix, Nognix, Famine, Idefix and Baltimore refuse to celebrate.

Investing 274 gold in Famine, Baltimore, Nognix, and Kostunrix we build marketplaces in those cities, which will allow us to get them to celebrate with 40 percent luxuries.

We have 68 cities, so 58 cities would celebrate in the first turn, followed by 4 in the second turn if we do this path.

We could also sell libraries and universities for 1840 gold across the empire.

2. 50 luxuries, 50 tax, 0 science.

Another celebration option. This triggers celebrations in Outpost and Idefix in addition to all the others triggered at 40 lux, and earns us 940 gold per turn.

3. 80 tax, 10 science, 10 luxuries.

Gives us 1207 gold per turn. This option maximises the tax.

4. 20 tax, 80 science, 0 luxuries.

Gives us 940 gold per turn, discoveries every 12 turns.

5. Some other combination that I did not think of.

So hop to it.

	19-10-2003 00:32									#2
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We can't exactly say that no new techs would be useful.. Armor, Artillery, Helicopters, and Spies would all help. There are *always techs that can give some advantage.

Concerning celebrating WLTxD: It is one thing for cities to go into celebration; it is a different thing for them to benefit from that. They would act as if Republic, right? Can you give some examples of the improvements and what the improvements would be in terms of gold or production?

At the moment, 940G per turn and a tech rate of 12 turns sounds like a winner, but I will wait to vote to see discussion from others.

	19-10-2003 00:40									#3
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But what would the result be if we mixed it?

Say 40% Luxuries for Celebrations (and I thought celebrating under fundamentalism allowed trade as if in a Democracy? ); 20% Tax would give us at least 940 Gold and likely more if we are celebrating; and 40% Science when combined with celebrating would give us....??? what tech rate (approx) ???

I agree that Espionage sounds useful, both against the walls and for bribing. Especially if we do move our capital to stutgart (or any other city on the front) which will mean our dips return to there? (or to the nearest city, I can't remember off the top of my head if successful spies return to the capital or the nearest city)

* Sparrowhawk the Devil's Advocate

	19-10-2003 06:34									#4
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Option 4, with 20-80-0 is the same as 50-50-0. Nothing changes in Fundie when science is above 50%. No loss either, but I wanted people to know that option 4 is functionally the same as the one used throughout the previous (successful) session.

	19-10-2003 11:44									#5
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quote: Concerning celebrating WLTxD: It is one thing for cities to go into celebration; it is a different thing for them to benefit from that. They would act as if Republic, right? Can you give some examples of the improvements and what the improvements would be in terms of gold or production?

All our cities would collect as if they were in a republic, so since we have so many ciites, we could expect around a 30% boost in trade.

quote: Say 40% Luxuries for Celebrations (and I thought celebrating under fundamentalism allowed trade as if in a Democracy? ); 20% Tax would give us at least 940 Gold and likely more if we are celebrating; and 40% Science when combined with celebrating would give us....??? what tech rate (approx) ???

20/40/40 nets us 640 gold a turn, and discoveries every 12 turns.

The reason this drops is that using high luxuries and a low tax rate hammers our cashflow.

	19-10-2003 21:36									#6
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OK, I agree with 60-0-40. We give up all tech advance and 200G per turn, but I think we might gain more gold by celebrating (several of the former American cities have good trade routes with the Germans, too).

I'll miss techs ocassionally, and we may regret not getting unit upgrades (we'll have older units from captured/bribed cities). But, why not give celebration a try...

	19-10-2003 22:09									#7
	Re: Celebrations, anyone? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi 4. 20 tax, 80 science, 0 luxuries. Gives us 940 gold per turn, discoveries every 12 turns.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi 20/40/40 nets us 640 gold a turn, and discoveries every 12 turns.

Which one is it for taxes?
If we can get a happy medium of all three (40% Luxuries for celebrations, 40% Science for new discoveries, 20% Tax to give us a decent cashflow) then I say go for it. One question about the tax numbers above, are those Revenues or Net Incomes (before or after expenses)?

Regardless, I vote against selling Libraries and Universities, as we may yet again increase the science rate.

* Sparrowhawk

	19-10-2003 22:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Regardless, I vote against selling Libraries and Universities, as we may yet again increase the science rate.

I agree not to sell Libraries/Universities (or anything but captured Granaries, for that matter. We will need to turn to tech research again in the future. Do we want to preclude the possibility of useful tech research some fine day when Spies or Mobile Warfare comes close?

	20-10-2003 04:53									#9
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since I have my cavalry I just want to celebrate...
(if it doesn't work out as we expected no-one will be holding us back to change the settings again...is it?

Shade

	20-10-2003 05:05									#10
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"Celebrate, celebrate; dance to the music..."

	20-10-2003 07:05									#11
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quote: Revenues or Net Incomes (before or after expenses)?

Sparrowhawk:

These are all net incomes, after expenses. That's the number we care more about than the revenues.

20 taxes, 40 science, 40 luxuries means 20/40/40 - I list them in the order that they appear on the sliders, taxes on top, with luxuries on the bottom.

	20-10-2003 07:11									#12
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Ok, that helps to know, but you didn't answer my other question above (I quoted you twice from this post where tax is 20%, and one time you said it results in 940 gold, and the other you said 640 gold....which is it?)

Aslo, I realize that Fundamentalism has diminishing returns (the higher the slider, the less the increase) but does 40% science and 80% science both result in 12 turns per discovery? Cause if so, then my vote is definitely for 20/40/40.

	20-10-2003 11:10									#13
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Setting science to anything higher than 50% makes no change. However, increasing science from 40% to 50% would change the number of beakers we get (though I don't know what the difference in turns would be).

Edit: that is, setting science higher than 50% in Fundie makes no change

	20-10-2003 12:03									#14
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quote: (I quoted you twice from this post where tax is 20%, and one time you said it results in 940 gold, and the other you said 640 gold....which is it?)

Question asked and answered. Increasing luxuries decreases the amount of tax revenue, hence we earn fewer gold per turn even if we don't shift the tax rate.

Therefore they are both the correct figures.

	20-10-2003 20:49									#15
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Well, i am new into this...
but i am a citizen, so i am allowed to say my opinion, or don't?

i am against selling libraries and universities, they are masterpieces of our culture. how did you wanted to write down our culture's history when having burnt all the books?

secondly i vote for a 30/10/60

i think we, as the people, have deserved a high standard of living (luxury goodies, let us celebrate!)

though, i agree that we still should keep on investing in science, because otherwhise, we would freeze to death in cultural meanings. a culture without further studying is already about to die.
taxes with 30 are still enough...
i don't want to pay that much into the gouvernment, as i said, let us celebrate and enjoy our lives. our production is way enough for war.

	20-10-2003 21:36									#16
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quote: Originally posted by comte_umanov Well, i am new into this... but i am a citizen, so i am allowed to say my opinion, or don't?

Of course you are.
All ideas and opinions are welcome and debatable.

Shade

	20-10-2003 23:21									#17
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We don't need 60 luxuries to celebrate. All I need is 40.

	22-10-2003 14:12									#18
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I certainly disagree with selling Libraries and Unis - they won't actually net us all that much gold for all the time expended on them. Can we test the settings to see what celebrating does, and base our decision on how much good it actually does us?

	22-10-2003 23:39									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Can we test the settings to see what celebrating does, and base our decision on how much good it actually does us?

I second that. Let's try it out first, see what it does, and then make a decision whether to continue or not.

	23-10-2003 01:01									#20
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Oh - didn't realise how soon the poll was closing. Never mind - I would have voted had my thoughts been cleared up, giving us 9 active citizens.