19-10-2003 08:59									#1
	Vigilante Justice Got spare money?

So as not to completly take over another thread, I figured I might start a new one..

Is it wrong or right to take the law into your own hands when the goverment cannot or will not take care of something that directly violates your family or friends. How far would you go to protect the ones you care about. Would you give up your life. Would you take the life of another to save someone you loved. I have always been a law and order type person but sometimes I wonder what I would do if the Government was unable to protect my family.

This link is to the story of the priest John Geoghan who was convicted of being a serial pedophile and then killed in prison.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinio...8-25-edit_x.htm

Once upon a time my cousin was in the middle of a divorce with her husband. He was bad about hitting her when he got drunk or angry. Time after time she called the police and they would take him away only to let him out again later. In the end it took her two brothers paying him a visit one night to convince him that she was not a person to be messed with.

What do you think. It's one thing to suffer pain for your principles but are you willing to let your loved ones suffer for them as well?

	19-10-2003 09:00									#2
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There's no justice like it.

	19-10-2003 09:05									#3
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So you sit there and take it. Sit there and watch your loved ones suffer. I don't know if I could do that.

	19-10-2003 09:13									#4
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That's not what I said.

	19-10-2003 09:13									#5
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Prison really isn't the place for skinny white guys like me. I would not do something to risk it unless me or someone I really really cared about was in grave harm, and I thought that taking some action would get them out of harm.

Of course, a vigilante action intended solely to punish with no hope of good coming about is completely immoral and must be always be condemned at punished.

	19-10-2003 09:15									#6
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If you break the law, don't get caught. If you do, not only you have to have good luck at getting caught by someone reasonable and addition to that convince him what you did is right thing to do eventhought illegal.
What are you planning to do?

	19-10-2003 09:17									#7
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I think vigilante justice in general is bad, and that's why I prefer to have a competent police that actually do its job - thus making vigilante justice useless.
However, if the police won't do anything about a problem involving my loved ones, I guess I'll do some personal justice to have the thing sorted out. It is wrong on principle, but I don't let my principles interfere when dealing about the risks for my loved ones. The only thing that could interfere would be my (very strong) survival instinct.

	19-10-2003 09:27									#8
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The rule of law should always be looked to first, absolutely.

If that fails, or becomes impotent and unable to provide its promised protection, then hell yes, I absolutely agree. You do what you gotta do and let God sort 'em out later.

-=Vel=-

	19-10-2003 09:30									#9
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Law exists to bring about justice. If law fails to do what it should, maybe people need to do it themselves. The problem with that is everybody has a (only slightly) different view of justice. An additional problem is it leads to blood feuds and clan wars, if not something worse. If you kill somebody to avenge a murder of a loved one, his loved ones then will have all the rights to kill you.

So, at the end of the day, we should live with a somewhat flawed system instead of seeking justice with our own hands. That will be better for everybody.

	19-10-2003 09:33									#10
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My morality isn't bounded by the law, but as far as I'm concerned, revenge is immoral.

	19-10-2003 09:34									#11
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I disagree, man. I think everybody here has a threshold. Some level...some event or series of affronts to self or loved ones that will push you so far that sooner or later, if the recognized law of the land does not lift a finger to bring a sense of justice to the situation, you will, eventually, reach your threshold and take matters into your own hands. Now, each person's threshold is gonna be different, but it's almost certainly out there, and when that line gets crossed, you WILL respond.

-=Vel=-

	19-10-2003 09:38									#12
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Of course it sucks if you get caught - then you're subject to the laws that govern the country.

When I found out my sister's b/f hit her, my mom and sister had to practically hold me down to keep me from driving up there and shooting that fvck in the head. He deserved it, and I would have done it in a heartbeat.

Thank goodness my family was there to stop me, otherwise I'd be in jail now for what I consider justifiable homicide.

	19-10-2003 10:58									#13
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interesting topic, bump

	19-10-2003 11:31									#14
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I do believe in a broad right of self-defense. No matter how good your police are, they exist more to lock up the guilty than to prevent the original crime. This leaves your own defense up to you initially, and the justice system should reflect that. Criminals don't deserve an even chance, which is why I find some convictions of people using deadly force in self-defense to be distasteful. Part of the problem is that people underestimate how potentially deadly a mismatch in hand to hand combat can be. Sorry, but when lives are at stake through no fault of mine I don't see why I should be interested in trying to create a fair fight. In fact the opposite seems to be both logical as well as moral.

I'd only support vigilante "justice" in a completely dysfunctional system. In such a case it's back to the middle ages more or less, which is still an improvement over a complete breakdown of collective self-defense.

	19-10-2003 11:32									#15
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin Of course it sucks if you get caught - then you're subject to the laws that govern the country. When I found out my sister's b/f hit her, my mom and sister had to practically hold me down to keep me from driving up there and shooting that fvck in the head. He deserved it, and I would have done it in a heartbeat. Thank goodness my family was there to stop me, otherwise I'd be in jail now for what I consider justifiable homicide.

What do you pack when you are bent on bumping off a brother in law gone brother out law?

	19-10-2003 11:57									#16
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He wasn't married to her, luckily.

I think it's best not to incriminate myself. But you can put a 9mm in my hand and I wouldn't look particularly uncomfortable. Or a wakizashi. Or a katana. Whatever. My mom bought me a crossbow when I was a kid because there was a local bounty on coyotes. I got pretty good with that too.

	19-10-2003 12:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin He wasn't married to her, luckily. I think it's best not to incriminate myself. But you can put a 9mm in my hand and I wouldn't look particularly uncomfortable. Or a wakizashi. Or a katana. Whatever. My mom bought me a crossbow when I was a kid because there was a local bounty on coyotes. I got pretty good with that too.

So do you wear boots, have long dark hair and your name is Xena?

	19-10-2003 12:26									#18
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Well, I cut off all my hair and donated it to Locks for Love, an organisation that makes hairpieces for kids who have cancer. But it was very long and black. My name ain't Xena, it's st_swithin. I do own boots, though.