20-10-2003 07:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by orange Why do Americans have trouble speaking any language other than English correctly? [/flame]

The real question is why do Americans have trouble with speaking English?

	20-10-2003 07:37									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Neutrino Why can Caucasians never get the tones right in Chinese?

My sister's SO has no trouble with them if I repeat them a couple of times. Of course, he's Canadian, so maybe that's the reason.

	20-10-2003 07:52									#33
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quote: He's confusing an accent with a speech impediment. Most people have an accent depending upon where you grew up, what country it was in, and which language you learned first.

i'm confusing it? or john is?

	20-10-2003 07:59									#34
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Why do comentators on NPR insist on saying things related to Latinos with that dee-ish tee sound. Even when they are talking English. And why do they say undocumented worker instead of illegal alien?

	20-10-2003 08:04									#35
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undocumented worker is p.c., illegal alien is not.

heaven forbid we hurt the self-esteem of those who come into this country illegally.

	20-10-2003 08:46									#36
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as much as it is the development of the muscles or tendons in the mouth or vocal cords, it is also the development of the brain. kids growing up making different sounds will be stimulating different parts of their brains, causing them to develop uniquely.

	20-10-2003 08:53									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed undocumented worker is p.c., illegal alien is not. heaven forbid we hurt the self-esteem of those who come into this country illegally.

If I'd been born in Canada, I'd be Canadian. If I'd been born in Australia, I'd be Australian. But because I was born in the states, I'm Other, Oriental, Asian, Asian-American, or Chinese American. Then whitey-American and redneck-American get pissed because we don't adopt American customs and habits.

	20-10-2003 10:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Why do American people have trouble rolling their Rs?

You roll lots of Rs in Spanish. Many if not most people in the southwest are good at it.

	20-10-2003 10:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The real question is why do Americans have trouble with speaking English?

HA! We out number the rest of you so democratically our way is correct and you folks are all wrong.

	20-10-2003 10:21									#40
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quote: But because I was born in the states, I'm Other, Oriental, Asian, Asian-American, or Chinese American. Then whitey-American and redneck-American get pissed because we don't adopt American customs and habits.

Um.. it's whitey-American and redneck-American who'd prefer you'd be called simply 'American' and not some hyphen.

	20-10-2003 10:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed undocumented worker is p.c., illegal alien is not. heaven forbid we hurt the self-esteem of those who come into this country illegally.

If I lose my driver's license, I'm undocumented. If I sneak in, I'm illegal. That is wrong as hell that they are using that lame-ass phrase.

	20-10-2003 12:24									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But because I was born in the states, I'm Other, Oriental, Asian, Asian-American, or Chinese American. Then whitey-American and redneck-American get pissed because we don't adopt American customs and habits. Um.. it's whitey-American and redneck-American who'd prefer you'd be called simply 'American' and not some hyphen.

Then who the heck is designating the forms we fill out?!?

I'd prefer not to be a hyphenated horror, like the Iran-Contras or EthnicOrigin-American.

	20-10-2003 13:09									#43
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quote: Then who the heck is designating the forms we fill out?!?

Dirty hippies, who think labelling you shows that they respect you.

God I hate hippies.

	20-10-2003 13:33									#44
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Fvckin' hippies. I want to amputate every filthy, balding-headed ponytail I see.

	20-10-2003 13:35									#45
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I got your back. Let's get to it.

	20-10-2003 13:54									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin HA! We out number the rest of you so democratically our way is correct and you folks are all wrong.

Including everybody who speaks English?

	20-10-2003 16:35									#47
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quote: If I'd been born in Canada, I'd be Canadian. If I'd been born in Australia, I'd be Australian. But because I was born in the states, I'm Other, Oriental, Asian, Asian-American, or Chinese American. Then whitey-American and redneck-American get pissed because we don't adopt American customs and habits.

yeah, i'm sick and tired of being "white/other". really, i am. oh, and i'm also not a chinaman, which i've been called before. and i've run into at least one whitey-american who got pissed because i didn't adopt rounder eyes.
then again, i went to an pan-asian restaurant in chicago's chinatown (joy yee's, perhaps you've heard of it?) with my caucasian gf, and the waitress seemed to not like us instantly, and the only reason we could figure out was that i'd asked for a spoon for when we ordered some soup, and was probably going into flashback of how her son married some white hussy and brought shame upon her and all her ancestors.

quote: If I lose my driver's license, I'm undocumented. If I sneak in, I'm illegal. That is wrong as hell that they are using that lame-ass phrase.

amen. i'm also pissed as hell that illegal immigrants are being allowed drivers licenses. at least if they're from south of the border. those slant-eyed illegal immigrants are being shipped back.

quote: Fvckin' hippies. I want to amputate every filthy, balding-headed ponytail I see.

what's the for? i'm perfectly serious--run around with skizzors and cut 'em. then let's go after mullets...

	20-10-2003 16:55									#48
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at least in the korean language, the sounds that we represent with the letters R and L are represented with the same letter in korean, so even though there are very SLIGHT differences in pronunciation when that letter is used, to the korean mind, there isn't really a distinguishable difference. in the korean language, the same is true for D and T, and for P and B, and for G (as in "grass") and K or for J or CH (as in church). In addition, there is no letter for the F or V or the sound that we make with TH (as in "than")
Thus, when speaking english with a korean who has minimal english experience, and little contact with native english speakers, it is not just the R and L sounds that get mixed up, but all of them.

If you were trying to learn korean, you would find that there are ALOT of sounds that koreans use and find distinct, that we do not consider to be different sounds, most notably with their considerably more complex vowel sounds, as well as aspirated or tensed consonants.

i simplified my explanation of the differences between the korean and english alphabets here, but you get the idea.

	20-10-2003 17:19									#49
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the letter used for r/l: r when intial syllable sound; l when final syllable sound.

letter used for d/t: d when initial, t when final. then you have a double d/t letter, which is always a t; and then you have the t', which is also always a t, but stronger...

	20-10-2003 17:28									#50
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quote: at least in the korean language, (...)

Interesting!

Similar problems for English-speakers learning Chinese. The Chinese seem, to us, to have two slightly different ways of saying each of the sounds CH, SH and TS. To them they are plainly different sounds, to us it's hard to detect the distinction, much less replicate it. It's the reverse of the L-R problem.

Anybody around here speak Hindi, Farsi, or Arabic languages? I would love to hear if there are similar pitfalls!

	21-10-2003 02:54									#51
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In japanese the sound transliterated as "r" is actually in general a mix between an l and a spanish-style r (not trilled but tapped) but in practice is pronounced many subtly different ways.

	21-10-2003 03:02									#52
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how is the bible beating? civ2000?

	21-10-2003 07:15									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I got your back. Let's get to it.

1) Coordinate watches.
2) Come up with nifty code words for stuff.
3) Buy guns, knives, and other various implements of death and destruction.
4) Make excuse for absence, like "Going to store for cigarettes".
5) Start with San Francisco.

	21-10-2003 07:31									#54
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The crow flies at midnight...

	21-10-2003 09:46									#55
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They're inferior.

	21-10-2003 10:24									#56
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The pigeon has landed. Cancer is rising over Mercury. Wait for the wolf call.

	21-10-2003 16:36									#57
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quote: the letter used for r/l: r when intial syllable sound; l when final syllable sound. letter used for d/t: d when initial, t when final. then you have a double d/t letter, which is always a t; and then you have the t', which is also always a t, but stronger...

	21-10-2003 17:23									#58
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Having spent years 8-17 amongst hordes of chinese, I cant think of any who couldnt pronounce R and L. A few who werent native english speakers had problems with plurals though. Maybe it's different for Hong-Kong chinese (who I know more of) vs Beijing chinese ?

	22-10-2003 03:20									#59
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Nah, there's just no plurals in Chinese. No articles (the or a), no verb conjugations, no prepositions. Lots of adverbs, though, if you count all the Lees

*boos self.

	22-10-2003 04:42									#60
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I meant the R's ands L.