09-09-2000 04:31									#1
	Stupid scenario idea Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have noticed that I seem to be crazy about anything containing Roman gladiators.
So, I have come to think that it might be possible to create a civ2 scenario about gladiator fights. The cities could be "Gates" from which the gladiators enter. The seats around the arena could be represented by roads, hills, forests or so. Cities are impossible to take, so the only objective is to kill the enemies, and whenever an enemy unit is killed, a new one pops up. This way, there is endless gladiator fun!
But I'm not really the guy to make scenarios like this. (I would also be very surprised if anyone actually agrees on doing this!)

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	09-09-2000 08:47									#2
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Sounds interesting enough. Maybe i'll give it a whirl if I have some time.

If you can do the graphics Stefan I can do the scenario....

	09-09-2000 08:53									#3
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Ok, here's the idea.

A relatively big arena for the fighters to roam in.

Two civs.

Slaves or Gladiators and the Romans

Three cities per side.

Gladiators:
Gate 2
Jail
Dungeon
Alba Longa

Romans:
Gate 1
Lion Pit
Warrior Pit
Roma

A detailed events would create various challenges for your warriors, like random lions entering the arena, or various heroes like Maximus appearing to fight.

There would be two main charachters for each civ. As they fight they can gain levels (advance to a different unit).

This sounds like a great game Stefan, we should work on this together.

	09-09-2000 15:36									#4
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We should do two gladiator civs. Like Maximus fighting that gladiator and the tigers in the movie. In reality, the Romans weren't really supporting anyone.

As a big highlight we can also feature Commodus' act in the arena (he really did fight, but problem was, there was always the same outcome )

OK, we could try it as a "just for fun" project. Why not?

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	09-09-2000 17:50									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This sounds good. But why only two (?) civs?. A short battle scn in a large arena with up to seven different groups (civs) of gladiators would also be good, hmm?

And you can use the Barbs as beasts (tigers. lions) which try to get a nice breakfest from every opponent. However, just some ideas...

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Civ2000
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited September 09, 2000).]

	09-09-2000 19:04									#6
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Hmm. Ok.

So we have;
Romans
Gladiators
and Slaves

Now the slaves will be used for the various non-gladatorial units; Lions, Tigers, Bears (oh my )and other units.

The Romans would have Commodorus as their hero and then a set of twelve gladiator units. Perhaps their could be other "lesser" heroes for them too.

The Gladiators would have Maximus as their hero with the the same, twelve units, on their team, plus the "lesser" heroes.

I have a set of units already set up for the scenario.

Stefan, do you think you can do the map and terrain?

	10-09-2000 00:13									#7
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This is how I thought about it:

Seven Civs: 4 Gladiator civs, at war with each other.
Gladiator group one has a hero named Perseus
Gladiator group two has a hero named Pollux
Gladiator group three has a her named Severus
Gladiator group four has Maximus

Civ5 is Romans, lead by Commodus
Civ6 is Animals/Martyrs/whatever
Civ7 is a supporting civ, like audience or so (this prevents the gladiators from attacking the audience if they should somehow reach the seats).

I already made three gladiator units and I'm working on more (I have also thought up names and stats for individual heroes).

Yes, I can make a map. I thought of it like this:

----------------------------------------
/ rows of seats \
/ \
/ - \
| - water tank for |
| "sea battles" | | | || || || || || || |
| - |
\ - /
\ /
\--------------------------------------- /

I'll also do city graphics, and maybe terrain graphics too.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	10-09-2000 00:16									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

This is entirely messed up, so think of an oval with a cross-shaped water tank in the middle.
(*Spam*)

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	10-09-2000 00:17									#9
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Make sure to include lions.

	10-09-2000 00:27									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Having an audience civ would cause the AI to constantly attack the stands which we don't want.

Just limit the size of the map so that gladiators cannot go into the stands or beyond.

	10-09-2000 00:37									#11
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I got the units pretty much set, but i'll need you to do the terrain Stefan since my own handiwork really sucks....

You might wanna leave the city pics blank, or you can make them look like large gates or cages (prisons)...

	10-09-2000 01:32									#12
	Got spare money?

You could set up impassable walls so that the gladiators can't escape. They had these in Roman arenas so that gladiators and animals couldn't get at the audience.

	10-09-2000 04:52									#13
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You can use Bomber air units with zero move to represent walls. That's a very common way to solve the problem. Or just put a water moat between the audience and the arena floor. Causeways leading in and out of the Gate-Cities could be protected by Bomber-Gates belonging to each civilization. That would keep the units from attacking the cities.

	10-09-2000 07:42									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here are the first units: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Gladiat.gif

(If anyone could upload them here I'd be very grateful, since Xoom is very stupid with that)

Mor tomorrow, for it's 4:30 AM right now and I fear that my parents could wake up...

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	16-09-2000 00:37									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

Stefan,

If you need some screenshots, I got the movie on VCD.

I got tons and tons of beautiful pictures, for example of the impressive battle at the start (the very height of the film I think (the end tends to get rather boring and predictable)).

The only fatal flaw that does not correspond to the character of Commodus in the movie is him killing Marcus Aurelius. That is psychologically not a reasonable thing. For the rest the movie is well constructed, and I didn't even mind it was not historical. Yes, it is destined to be a classic.

	16-09-2000 13:50									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I loved the movie. I can hardly wait for it to come out on video here, esp. on English.
As for the screenshots, I have a trailer and a number of movie stills from the internet, so don't bother

I did some research on Commodus afterwards, and I think that this would definately fit into his character. Only thing is that Mark Aurel died of the Plague.


------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!
Mighty Carthage fought three wars:
It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
-Bert Brecht

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	17-09-2000 16:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree with you, Stefan, Gladiator is one of the best movies I saw. But has anyone noticed the paralleles (-sp) to the older movie "The fall of the Roman Empire" with Alec Guiness, James Mason, Hardy Krüger etc. ?

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Civ2000
[This message has been edited by BeBro (edited September 17, 2000).]

	17-09-2000 20:24									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The historical background with Marcus Aurelius, the fights in Germania at the beginning etc., in both movies is it a highly decorated roman officer that fights against Commodus, both movies have this one-to-one fight at the end.

Also in both cases M.Aurelius dies due to an assasination (but in the older movie Commodus isn´t the murderer), and in both cases M.Aurelius will not have Commodus as the next Caesar.

BTW, before Gladiator this older movie was my fauvorite about ancient Romans. I wouldn´t say that these paraleles make Gladiator a "remake" or so, it has it´s own strenghts, but I found it interesting to match the two movies.


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Civ2000

	18-09-2000 15:45									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You could let the audience be a civ allied to all the others. If there are some cities at the border of the arena, gladiators could use those to improve their health.
Perhaps Leonardo's workshop might come in handy to upgrade gladiators. I wouldn't know which side to give, it though. The Romans probably.
Perhaps the lions etc. could be barbarian. You could then set the barbarian activity to "raging hordes" or whatever, to create them. But, well, since there's probably enough room for all the civs, making them a separate civ would do just fine and would give you more control over them.

Perhaps you could use air units to represent chained animals.

And I agree with all of you, Gladiator definitely was a great movie.

	18-09-2000 17:05									#22
	Support Apolyton

If you need a terrain to perform a stone floor for your arena, send me a Private Message; i snapped it from AOE drs files with a Slp program... I'll send it to you.
PS Stefan, have you received my Celtitaly scenario? I posted it to you two days ago.

	21-09-2000 05:27									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Prometeus: Tell us more! I would love to ransack AOE for LOTS of artwork. City walls, floors, animals, units, the list goes on and on! What exactly is an "Slp program", where does one find one, and how easy is it to use? Enquiring minds want to know!

	21-09-2000 15:04									#24
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a) The program is named SLP-Studio. Sorry, I found it on a CD-Rom...
b) It's written in english, and it's a lot easy to use; this program open the DRS encripted code, changing every SLP into a BMP image ( or image series )... What you have to do is to copy DRS files into SLP folder, then open them with SLP-Studio.
I hope you have AoE. I posted it to you.
c) The Slp compressed file is a collection of single or more bitmaps, stored in a file with a DRS extension.
Currently, there are four useful DRS files in AoE.
One is for Graphics ( units, trees, buildings...), the second depicts Terrains, the third is for Sounds, and the fourth is for Game borders. Do not open Interfac.DRS, it stores only numeric codes.
d) I'm ransacking Graphics.DRS for my Kok Turks scenario - with awesome results ( I was able to change the Civ2 MGE Forest terrain into a Boreal Forest... ).

[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited September 21, 2000).]

	21-09-2000 19:56									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Age of Empires has a screenshot option built-in. You just need to press the "Ctrl" and "F12" buttons, and the game will generate a *.bmp file in the main directory. This was, of course, done for the intro maps in first place, but it is possible to convert them into *.gifs.

	21-09-2000 20:42									#26
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Stefan, This SLP-Studio allows also to replace internal images, and to extract hidden ones. Not to be mentioned you can pick up trees one by one, and not as you can do with the Aoe screenshot build-in...
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited September 21, 2000).]

	22-09-2000 12:07									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks Prometeus! That program is sooooo cool!!!