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Static Universe is offline Static Universe
Prince

Dec 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 19-10-2003 17:52
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Pope Beatifies Mother Teresa Support Apolyton

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlate...3282357,00.html
quote:


Joyous Pope Beatifies Mother Teresa

Sunday October 19, 2003 12:31 PM

By FRANCES D'EMILIO

Associated Press Writer

VATICAN CITY (AP) - Pope John Paul II, struggling to celebrate Mass but looking joyous, beatified Mother Teresa during a ceremony Sunday in St. Peter's Square - bestowing one of his church's highest honors on the nun who cared for society's downtrodden.

In a shaky and halting voice, John Paul managed to proclaim Mother Teresa blessed, the last major step on the path to sainthood. But after stumbling through several prayers, he let aides read all of his homily, including a tribute to ``this courageous woman.''

Mother Teresa won the 1979 Nobel Peace Prize for her charity work in India and elsewhere. She died in 1997.

Police and Vatican security officials estimated the crowd at 300,000, one of the Vatican's largest. After a night of rain, the sun was shining Sunday and thousands of tourists and Romans streamed toward the square even after the ceremony began.

John Paul, wheeled in an upholstered chair across the front steps of St. Peter's Basilica toward an altar sheltered by a canopy, seemed pleased by the jubilant crowd.

``Brothers and sisters, even in our days God inspires new models of sainthood,'' John Paul told the crowd. ``Some impose themselves for their radicalness, like that offered by Mother Teresa of Calcutta, whom today we add to the ranks of the blessed.''

``In her, we perceive the urgency to put oneself in a state of service, especially for the poorest and most forgotten, the last of the last,'' John Paul said, speaking in a slow and shaky voice.

Nuns from her order wiped away tears and the crowd clapped when he pronounced her blessed. A poster of her smiling, wrinkled face was unveiled to the crowd from the facade of the basilica.

Parkinson's disease has stiffened the pope's facial muscles, and he no longer stands or walks in public because of hip and knee ailments.

In his homily, read by Bombay Cardinal Ivan Dias and others, John Paul said he was ``personally grateful to this courageous woman whom I have always felt at my side.''

Another cardinal substituted for the pope in saying some of the Mass prayers, further evidence of the pope's diminished stamina. After a week of several long ceremonies to mark 25 years in the papacy, John Paul faces another test of his strength Tuesday, when he is to lead a long ceremony to install 30 new cardinals.

Hundreds of nuns from the Missionaries of Charity, the order established by Mother Teresa in 1949 to tend to the destitute, sang hymns with gusto.

Front-row seats were reserved for VIPs, including Queen Fabiola of Belgium, royalty from Liechtenstein and Jordan, the presidents of Albania, Macedonia and Kosovo - in homage to Mother Teresa's roots in the Balkans - and about 2,000 of the poor from shelters run by Mother Teresa's followers, including one inside the Vatican's walls.

Also attending the ceremony were Muslim and Orthodox Christian delegations from Albania.

Mother Teresa, an ethnic Albanian, was born in what is now Skopje, Macedonia. She spent most of her life working in India and established convents and homes for the needy around the world.

The pope put her on the fast track toward sainthood; breaking with the church practice of waiting five years after a candidate's death before starting the often decades-long process of beatification, the last formal step before declaring someone a saint.

Last year he confirmed the required miracle for her beatification, the recovery of an Indian woman who was being treated for what doctors said was an incurable abdominal tumor. A second miracle is needed for elevation to sainthood.

In an interview with The Associated Press a few days before the beatification, the woman, Monica Besra, recounted how nuns from Mother Teresa's order tied a medal with her image around her waist and prayed. The day was exactly one year after Mother Teresa's death.

``That day I fell asleep and I had a deep sleep,'' said Besra, who embraced Catholicism after her recovery. ``When I woke up, I touched my stomach and I found that the tumor was no more. And I felt light.'' John Paul has stressed the importance of fresh role models for his flock in the third millennium, and three of those he has propelled along the path to sainthood were active in the latter half of the 20th century. In addition to Mother Teresa, an Italian mystic monk, Padre Pio, and the Spanish priest who founded the conservative religious organization Opus Dei, Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, had huge followings among Catholics.

Mother Teresa ``gave up a lot to do God's work,'' said American visitor Dennis Hunt, pushing his infant son, Andrew in a stroller as he made his way to the square.

Hunt, a member of the U.S. Air Force who came from Ramstein Air Base in Germany along with wife, Annette, convinced his parents to come from Chippewa Falls, Wisc., to join him at the beatification.


Not sure about this tying icons around the stomach business, but surely Mother Theresa deserves sainthood. Any objections?

Verres is offline Verres
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Aug 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 19-10-2003 18:00
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Sounds fair to me...maybe the Pope hasnt completely lost it yet

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 18:14
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Well, Mother Theresa has done quite a few bad things (she refused to modernise her hospital, and as a result many people could not be healed; she was quite nuts on the doctrine and highly proselytist), but I think she should have achieved Sainthood already, if only because she incarnates on the TV everything that is good in the catholic Church.
Her image is so great, it's a wonder JP2 hasn't canonised her already.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 18:22
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Don't you have had to perform a miracle to become a Saint? Or is this another area the church is 'modernizing'?

Buck Birdseed is offline Buck Birdseed
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Nov 2000
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Static, Static. I see you're a beginner at this. Now, for this to have worked the title should have been "Mother Theresa should not have been Beatified", and the first post should have included several baseless accusations about nuns and sadomasochism.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 18:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Static, Static. I see you're a beginner at this. Now, for this to have worked the title should have been "Mother Theresa should not have been Beatified", and the first post should have included several baseless accusations about nuns and sadomasochism.


I'm TRYING to stoke it up a little!

Static Universe is offline Static Universe
Prince

Dec 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 19-10-2003 18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by reds4ever
Don't you have had to perform a miracle to become a Saint? Or is this another area the church is 'modernizing'?


You need two miracles.

Her first miracle occured when Mother Theresa followers tied a picture of her around the abdomen of a woman and the tumor there miraculously disappeared after she received medical treatment.

Wacky Catholics.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 20:22
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Christopher Hitchens wrote an entire delightful book trashing Mother Teresa called Missionary Position. There's a good interview with him about it here: http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featpostel_56_p.htm

mindseye is offline mindseye
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Apr 1999
time: 13:31
  Old Post 19-10-2003 20:47
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I had an article arounnd somewhere, quoted it here before, can't find it now. It had allegations from folks who had spent time in her "hospices", claiming she routinely witheld painkillers because she felt that through experiencing pain, you experience Jesus.

There were also mind-boggling accounts of the pettiness of her penny-pinching policies inflicted on her staff (e.g. accounting records done with pencil on paper, when paper is full, it is erased and re-used), unanswered questions about where the mountains of money go, etc.

She certainly did not sound like much of a "saint" ...

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 21:32
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Amazing. She dedicates her life to helping the poor, but of course then because she isn't modern enough, she is demonized here. Guess I shouldn't have expected anything less though on a board so rabidly anti-Catholic that it puts Jack Chick to shame.

Jack the Bodiless is offline Jack the Bodiless
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  Old Post 19-10-2003 21:54 Visit Jack the Bodiless's homepage!
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It's not that she "isn't modern enough".

The specific allegations are:

1. Most of the money donated to her charity ended up in the coffers of the Vatican (or somewhere). Not much of it actually got to the needy.

2. She deliberately allowed people to die in screaming agony, without pain relief. She thought that suffering was holy.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:31
Cool  Old Post 19-10-2003 23:01 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck Birdseed
Static, Static. I see you're a beginner at this. Now, for this to have worked the title should have been "Mother Theresa should not have been Beatified", and the first post should have included several baseless accusations about nuns and sadomasochism.




OKay who would win in a no holds barred fight between Mother Teresa and Ghandi?!?!

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
King
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 19-10-2003 23:37
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Christopher Hitchens has made an industry of claiming to look at a person or issue "with an open mind", saying "oh my goodness, look what I found", and then throwing buckets of **** on everybody in sight. Lets look at some recent effort's from Rufus' link:

quote:
Calcutta has the reputation as being a complete hell hole thanks to Mother Teresa. ... What a pity that Mother Teresa should have given this great city such a bad name and made us feel condescending toward it.
Looks like no good deed goes unpunished.

quote:
Then I noticed her get the Nobel Prize for Peace though she had never done anything for peace.

This hardly needs comment.

quote:
we found that an amazing number of her crimes against humanity were actually on film. ... film of her going to Albania and laying a wreath at the tomb of the dictator ... film of her groveling to the Duvaliers and flattering ... film of her jetting around on Charles Keating’s plane which he used to lend her...
This is certainly a different understanding of crimes against humanity.

After doing a similar hatchet job on a number of fromer friends from the Clinton Administration, Hitchens recently wondered in a Washington Post interview why nobody seems to want to speak with him any more. The guy must be utterly clueless.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
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Oct 2002
time: 21:31
  Old Post 20-10-2003 01:47
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i think that this is just an example of catholicism coming death.

ixnay is offline ixnay
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Jan 1970
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I read the title as "Pope Beautifies Mother Teresa" and was all "How the hell can he beautify her? She's been a corpse for 6 years!"

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 01:57
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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't saints supposed to have commited miricles and not just good works? Maybe I'm cunfused on the matter though.

Immortal Wombat is offline Immortal Wombat
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Dec 2000
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The second miracle was her face appearing in a Danish pastry in (IIRC) Spain.

Static Universe is offline Static Universe
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Dec 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay
I read the title as "Pope Beautifies Mother Teresa" and was all "How the hell can he beautify her? She's been a corpse for 6 years!"

Attachment: mother.jpg
This has been downloaded 59 time(s).

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
The second miracle was her face appearing in a Danish pastry in (IIRC) Spain.

There are decidedly many miracles happening in Spain, I mean hallucinations divine apparitions happening to Spaniards

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't saints supposed to have commited miricles and not just good works? Maybe I'm cunfused on the matter though.


then that makes two of us! read above!

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 06:55
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anything passes as a miracle for a sickly catholic church in need of boosting.

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 07:01
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She was beatified, NOT canonized. She needed only one miracle for this step. What they did do was remove the 5 year waiting period after ones death to look for that first mirace. Thye Church actually is very stricty in how they interpret miracles.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
She was beatified, NOT canonized. She needed only one miracle for this step. What they did do was remove the 5 year waiting period after ones death to look for that first mirace. Thye Church actually is very stricty in how they interpret miracles.


Let's be clear about the Church and "strictness." Under the current pope, the granting of sainthood has become a kind of PR ploy, used to bolster the image of the Church worldwide (and especially in the Third World, where the potential for growth is greatest). John Paul II has, in his 25 years on the throne, canonized more saints that all the Popes in the previous 400 years before his reign combined. Now, I suppose it's possible that more miracles occured between 1978 and 2003 than occurred between 1578-1978, but we'll actually never know, because JP2 also abolished the office of Devil's Advocate -- the guy whose job it was to argue against an individual's sainthood, thus helping assure that only the truly worthy were canonized.

The Pope is doling out Sainthood the way the Queen doles out knighthoods, and for similar reasons. Do not be surprised when Ringo Starr -- the Catholic Beatle, IIRC -- is beatified.

And, Shi: this may be Catholic-bashing, but it's coming from a fellow Catholic.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Rufus: I actually agree with you that this Pope has been far too liberal in how doles out sainthood, and there have been a few "saints" that I would strongly object to being raised to level of beatification/canonization, and I feel this Pope has given new credence to theose theologians who feel canonizations are not infallible. It does seem going quite a bit far when people try savaging people like Mother Teresa, who I am sure would be canonized no matter who holds the Chair of Peter.

Static Universe is offline Static Universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly

The Pope is doling out Sainthood the way the Queen doles out knighthoods, and for similar reasons. Do not be surprised when Ringo Starr -- the Catholic Beatle, IIRC -- is beatified.


Well, if Ringo's music career doesn't count as a miracle, I don't know what does.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Rufus: I actually agree with you that this Pope has been far too liberal in how doles out sainthood, and there have been a few "saints" that I would strongly object to being raised to level of beatification/canonization, and I feel this Pope has given new credence to theose theologians who feel canonizations are not infallible. It does seem going quite a bit far when people try savaging people like Mother Teresa, who I am sure would be canonized no matter who holds the Chair of Peter.


Yes, but the problem is that in his zeal for good PR, Il Papa has diluted the very meaning of sainthood; in some very real way it's he who has dragged Mother Teresa down, by debasing the company she's meant to keep -- and made hatchet jobs like Hitchins' far more acceptable than they might be otherwise.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Yes, but the problem is that in his zeal for good PR, Il Papa has diluted the very meaning of sainthood; in some very real way it's he who has dragged Mother Teresa down, by debasing the company she's meant to keep -- and made hatchet jobs like Hitchins' far more acceptable than they might be otherwise.


No, I don't see that as being the case. Non-Catholics such as Hitchens can complain all they want, but it won't affect internal Church matters, I really don't see Catholics as being less inclined to seek the intercession of the Saints because of JP2's papacy.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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  Old Post 20-10-2003 13:02
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Shi:

Why does she need to be canonised? As a believer isn't she already a saint?

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Let's be clear about the Church and "strictness." Under the current pope, the granting of sainthood has become a kind of PR ploy


I'm not sure about that

quote:


VATICAN CITY—Concerned handlers for Pope John Paul II announced Monday that, in recent weeks, the 78-year-old Catholic leader has "just been blessing everything in sight."

"We are, of course, very concerned for His Holiness' mental condition," said chief papal physician Giuseppe Clementi, standing by the pope's bedside, surrounded by dozens of newly consecrated pill bottles, urine-specimen cups and orthopedic slippers. "Pretty much anything you hold up in front of his face these days, he blesses."

Vatican handlers said they first noticed signs of papal deterioration on Jan. 26, as he deplaned at St. Louis' Lambert International Airport upon his arrival in the U.S. After descending the airplane staircase and kissing the runway, as is papal tradition, the pope broke free of his handlers and blessed a luggage cart, a podium, a Life photographer's camera, the plane's left-side landing gear, three TWA flight attendants, and two of the Swiss Guard who were attempting to release his grip on the landing struts and subdue him. Upon realizing that he was being physically restrained, the pope worked his papal-signet-ring-bearing right hand free and blessed the entire aircraft, which now resides in its own special five-story grotto under St. Peter's Basilica.

The pope's blessing rampage also necessitated the construction a 40,000-square-foot reliquary for the storage of thousands of now-holy items. Housed in the structure are such hallowed objects as the Blessed Vacuum Cleaner Of St. Matthew, the Consecrated Ball Of Crumpled-Up Paper, and the Sacred Zagnut Bar Of Christ, which the pope discovered and blessed during his recent U.S. visit.

The only artifacts not stored in the reliquary are those of medical necessity, which have been left in the pope's room. These include the Most Holy Intravenous Saline Drip, Maria The Day Nurse Of The Blessed Virgin, and the Electroencephalogram and Electrocardiogram Of St. Peter and St. Paul.


"That which the Vicar of Christ has sanctified becomes a holy object and must be used for no other purpose," Clementi said. "Therefore, it is unthinkable to commit the mortal sin of sacrilege by, for instance, either restraining the pope from the consecration of his strained beets or emptying the bedpans once he has filled and blessed them."

Though concerned about the pope's erratic behavior, Vatican staffers did not admit to a loss of morale.

"The pope's condition may be somewhat disconcerting to those of us charged with his care, but it is no doubt God's will," said papal drool-bib acolyte Thomassini Moretti, a nine-year veteran of Vatican spoon-feedings. "I have seen many mysterious things in the service of the Lamb of God, and I must trust that my wristwatch, lunch sack and right leg have become holy artifacts as part of some divine plan that I was not meant to comprehend."

Moretti said he first noticed changes in the pope in May 1996, when he held a much-publicized public baptism of pigeons and stray dogs in Rome's Trevi Fountain. Later that year, he made headlines again when he announced the excommunication of Big Boy and released a controversial papal bull condemning "picnic apes."





Static Universe is offline Static Universe
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