20-10-2003 03:39									#1
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I am playing board games again

one thing though is that my current partners are a little less intense than I am

for example, Axis and Allies is a favorite, as was Diplomacy

one thing that people are interested is a game

that has more detailed strategic and tactical peices

as well as more free flowing diplomacy and th elike found in Diplomacy

I think that initial allies is considered less interesting

also I think having the guns versus butter issue would be interesting

and the type of troop issue is a must

Jon Miller

	20-10-2003 03:53									#2
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You lost me at hello...

	20-10-2003 03:55									#3
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hmm

try that again

we are interested in a board game

that has elements of

tactics
diplomacy

(guns vs butter would also be cool)

JM

	20-10-2003 03:56									#4
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He didn't say hello, but I agree with Static

	20-10-2003 06:37									#5
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Jon:

Try World in Flames. Published by Australian Design Group. It's a tactical/strategic world war II board game.

http://www.a-d-g.com.au/

	20-10-2003 07:52									#6
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can you tell me about it?

it seems fairly intense, otherwise cool

I am actually sort of not sure what to do with my grand level world war two needs

I have two copies of 1st edition 3rd Reich

I have a copy of the new Avalanche Press 3rd Reich

I have a copy of Axis and Allies: Europe

possibilities to complete would be

Axis and Allies (original) (or Axis and Allies: Pacific??)
A World at War (Advanced Third Reich + Rising Sun)
World in Flames (starter, or Delux or Super Delux)
Great Pacific War

World in Flames doesn't seem to be that heavy in diplomacy unless I go all out and get the addons which allow other nonhistoric things to go on (but that is a need for a different game)

BTW, how is the civilization board game (the one based upon the Computer game?)

Jon Miller

	20-10-2003 08:08									#7
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Axis and allies was really fun. I dont think I have the patience to play board games anymore though.

	20-10-2003 09:54									#8
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Too bad Supremacy is still out of print, or is it?

	20-10-2003 10:33									#9
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you can often find an out of print game somewhere

I need to work on getting Avalon Hills Civilization actually (one of my all time favorite games)

axis and allies is all right, I find it a little bit simplistic and unballanced

the game of it that I played last night it actually the first that I have ever really enjoyed

Jon Miller

	20-10-2003 13:42									#10
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I was going to say Kingmaker with advanced rules.

Supremacy was very boring when we played it. It looked good for awhile, but got nowhere.

	20-10-2003 18:07									#11
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hmm

that is a thought

I have Kingmaker

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 04:52									#12
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Jon:

If you find Axis and Allies a bit simplistic, WiF might be just what you need. It's got so many different types of unit, you probably won't build them all.

And ignore what it says about the diplomacy aspect. The USA entry settings are VERY complex, and VERY detailed, and I think from memory about 7 in the 50 USA responses deal with actual military (the lend-lease programs to UK/USSR). The diplomacy is actually fairly good, and it's open to a bit of "house rules" and outside game negotiations. Of course, for the fullest depth of diplomacy you would need the diplomacy game add-on.

I would heartily recommend WiF if it's an extremely detailed and deep WWII grand strategic/tactical/diplomacy game you want. Only problem is for a really good game you need 8 players for the 8 majors. Though if you only get 5 (like we had) we just had:

- Germany/Italy
- USA/China
- Commonwealth/France
- Japan
- USSR

	21-10-2003 06:18									#13
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1829 - railways not guns (just in case that matters) but plenty of diplomacy, tactics and strategy. Its railway building with some finance but not as much as 1830.

I didn;t really see much connection with the Civ board game and the computer game (other than the name) although i played the Hartland Trefoil version which may (or may not) be the same as the Avalon Hill.

	21-10-2003 08:20									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What about Empire at Arms?

	21-10-2003 11:45									#15
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the avalon hill game had no connection to the computer game (but is one of the best board games I have ever played and better than the computer game I feel)

I beleive it was the same as the hartland trefoil version

I don't know about empire at arms

I don't have any concern about my being able to handle WiF, I have concerns about my other players handling it (Axis and Allies seems to be at about the level of complexity they prefer)

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 11:47									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

once more, the issue that my freinds have is that hey want a grand strategic game with no predetermined alliances

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 18:04									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller once more, the issue that my freinds have is that hey want a grand strategic game with no predetermined alliances Jon Miller

Chinese Checkers

	21-10-2003 19:17									#18
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and also more units and the like than diplomacy

at least on the level of axis and allies

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 19:58									#19
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Avalon Hill's Dune is the best boardgame ever created, imho. Kingmaker is not far behind,

	21-10-2003 22:48									#20
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haven't tried Dune

Kingmaker I have just found to be alright, but I ahve really only played it 'for real' once

Jon Miller

	21-10-2003 23:45									#21
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The Civilisation board game(the one Civ computer game is based on) is a fun game - its not a hard-core combat game like some of the WWII games that have been mentioned, but its got a great ancient flavour and even thought its been many years since i played it, it remains one of my favourites. Its not an easy game to finish though
Link to civ info

	22-10-2003 01:20									#22
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I have played that game (Avalon Hill's Civilization) over 50 times (and won the majority of the games I played, and played almost all to the end)

there was a time when I ahd won like 20 in a row (I will only play if there are more than 4 players)

Jon Miller

	22-10-2003 03:38									#23
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Forgot about Dune .

From what i remember quite a few flaws in the rules (or maybe we just like house rules) but more than compensated by the ability to form alliances, plot and scheme and just generally ruin friendships.

Not as deep as WiF, Third Reich but for these Diplomacy type games i don't think you want too much complexity.

	22-10-2003 07:50									#24
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AH's Civilization (the original before Sid) was a very fun game.

	22-10-2003 11:13									#25
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how is the new french veriosn

JOn Miller

	22-10-2003 12:24									#26
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb AH's Civilization (the original before Sid) was a very fun game.

It is great. Though it's not a real wargame. In fact, fighting hurts you.

	22-10-2003 13:30									#27
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yah

I liked that about it

JM

	22-10-2003 18:19									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Standup Forgot about Dune . From what i remember quite a few flaws in the rules (or maybe we just like house rules) but more than compensated by the ability to form alliances, plot and scheme and just generally ruin friendships.

There's quite a bit of Dune PBEM going on online if you're interested....

Problem is, the games take forever to complete..

	26-10-2003 04:25									#29
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One word

"JUNTA"

a very entertaining game.

	26-10-2003 05:08									#30
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can anyone provide a link?

I have heard it before, but have not 'perused' it

Jon Miller