Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Democracy Game > Intersite DG: Apolyton Team > My life as a frog (Grenouille)
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
astrologix is offline astrologix
Emperor
On Earth
Jun 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 20-10-2003 21:29
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
My life as a frog (Grenouille) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Part I - (3950 BC)


Our civilization started with difficulty. We had a poor ground around the starting position (three tiles of desert and much of water). We decided to move our colonist on a tile of plain, between lake and sea, before founding the capital, Cervoise, in 3950 BC.

(to follow)

Last edited by astrologix on 20-10-2003 at 21:41

astrologix is offline astrologix
Emperor
On Earth
Jun 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 20-10-2003 21:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Part II - (3900 BC - 3400 BC) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We ordered 2 warriors to make exploration, Asterix to the East, Obelix to the West. At the West, a hut gave us one 3rd warrior, Idefix. We decided that Obelix was going from now on to explore South-West.

In general, we did not have luck with the huts: always barbarians!

(to follow...)


astrologix is offline astrologix
Emperor
On Earth
Jun 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 20-10-2003 22:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Part III - (3350 BC - 3150 BC) Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

In 3300 BC, Obelix located the border of Netatolia (CGN)!!

The debate made rage in our team around the high score from this civ.

.

At 3200 BC we estimated that CGN had at least three cities whereas we had only one of them! The proximity of this powerful neighbor worried us. We decided to try the blow and to insert Obelix in their territory in order to see whether the city were without defense or not. And it was empty!



For us, that was worth the sorrow to cause a war early rather than to wait passively until Netatolia crushes us a little later! Already we were pleased to destroy Floral-Park at the start of the next turn and to thus equalize our chances vis-a-vis Netatolia.

But, unfortunately at the beginning of the following turn, Obelix was not there any more. It had been killed!! We wondered then if CGN had not cheated. After a meticulous examination of the evolution of the score, we concluded that Floral-Park had just time to build its first warrior at the beginning of 3150 BC and that it had thus killed Obelix. This is why, well with our regret, we had to give up any hope to reduce the power of our neighbor.

Although they offered to us peace within this same turn, our relations were going to be tended for the remainder of the game.

(to be followed...)

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 01:34 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

"Give me your tired, your hungry your poor"

Welcome to the Apoly team BTW!

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 04:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Excellent stuff astro, and very interesting so far. We guessed at an early war IIRC.

Please, we are reading intently, so by all means continue.

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 05:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

nice!

astrologix,

Any chance I can chat with you at some point about CGN? I'm the ambassador to CGN and I'd love to get your insight on how Grenouille found dealing with them (with the caveat that we know they hated you, of course )

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 07:26 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

astro - . Once again - welcome. And good reading. Looks like we weren't the only ones with a mediocre start. Thank the godz for more inept neighbours.

Arnelos is offline Arnelos
Emperor
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 10:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Beta
astro - . Once again - welcome. And good reading. Looks like we weren't the only ones with a mediocre start. Thank the godz for more inept neighbours.


Here, here!

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 12:34 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Typical to see the French having all the Wine...

Welcome to Apolyton!

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 18:42
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ballsy move on their part, attacking your warrior with theirs. I'd have fortified him and made you attack. Better odds.

-Arrian

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 23:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

True.
Maybe CGN wanted to kill a Grenouille unit badly, or perhaps wanted to stop Grenouille from scouting around their turf. But it's still a bad move, because not only they attacked on somewhat inferior terms (44.4% of winning IIRC, instead of 63.8% if they fortified and waited to be attacked), but they had an early town to lose, unlike Grenouille who only lost a warrior and some scouting ability.

ZargonX is offline ZargonX
Emperor
Space
Sep 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 21-10-2003 23:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sheesh... this ISDG is just full of people making seemingly stupid tactical maneuvers and having them pay off

vondrack is offline vondrack

Emperor
Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 00:25
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon



As if you read my thoughts, Z...

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 00:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

Can you say "reload" and try something different if that didn't work out. Thats the only excuse I can think of that they would do that. otherwise, it's completely ignorant of them to do it.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 01:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

It's possible, but given little to no supporting evidence, I wouldn't even discuss this option.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 01:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by ZargonX
Sheesh... this ISDG is just full of people making seemingly stupid tactical maneuvers and having them pay off


Seriously. But at least this particular gamble had a ~45% chance of success.

-Arrian

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 05:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Arrian


Seriously. But at least this particular gamble had a ~45% chance of success.

-Arrian


Yes, but you must measure that against the probabilities that defending with the Warrior would have provided over attacking with him.

To me: 64%>44%

What other considerations would there have been?

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 05:47 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by BigFree


Yes, but you must measure that against the probabilities that defending with the Warrior would have provided over attacking with him.

To me: 64%>44%

What other considerations would there have been?


And especially because if you lost the battle you lost the city which at this point of the game could be a killer...

But enough so they are reloaders or it appears so, lets get there but kicked so they are done and over!

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 05:59
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 07:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Could we stop jumping to unfounded conclusions about other teams based on incomplete data? Please?

Perhaps there was a warrior finished in that city that turn, AND another just outside it, unseen by Grenouille. That would give them one to attack and one to hold. Significanty better odds than those being discussed.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 07:21 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
Can you say "reload" and try something different if that didn't work out. Thats the only excuse I can think of that they would do that. otherwise, it's completely ignorant of them to do it.


BF, will every move that requires less than a 50% probability of winning be considered cheating on your part? No offense but I'm a bit sick of conspiracy theories which aren't based on a shred of evidence.

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 08:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
Originally posted by Master Zen


BF, will every move that requires less than a 50% probability of winning be considered cheating on your part? No offense but I'm a bit sick of conspiracy theories which aren't based on a shred of evidence.


Hear, Hear!!

E_T

Fried-Psitalon is offline Fried-Psitalon
Prince
Not just another pretty face.
Dec 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 08:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There could very well have been a second warrior around. Or maybe they felt they could take a risk since it was a "free" city in order to keep enemy surveilance down. Or one of a dozen reasons.

Just because someone doesn't play the way you think they would doesn't mean they're cheating. The beauty of Civ is that there is never a "right" course of action; only actions that we can look back on. Even then, you never know what other courses might have led to - in this case, CGN made a choice, and it paid off. We have absolutely no reason to think they cheated.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 09:06
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Could we stop jumping to unfounded conclusions about other teams based on incomplete data? Please?



I was not making any accusations that were not tongue in cheek. I do not actually think CGN is/were cheating now or in the past. The purpose of my questioning posts are to get more people here to respond and to think about what the other teams are doing as compare to what we do and our general ideology.

Do I still think it would have been beter for them to fortify? Yes.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 14:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think of both of you as radicals - you always take opposite sides of the same debate: BF and MZ.

This isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing, as we need to know the extreme sides of a side as well as the middle-of-the-road before we can decide.

Plus it makes me smile too - I can just see BF poring over rumours and half-whispered reports of superstitious soldiers returned from the front and concocting elegant stories of spies, secret liaisons and skullduggery. And I see MZ attending BF's conspiracy theory letures just because he knows he can argue against them.

Well, maybe I just have an active imagination....

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 15:46 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

...I can see Apolyton's central market square, with both BF and MZ standing on boxes trying to convince the crowd that their point of view is the truth. On both sides, there are a number of followers listening closely. In the middle, people run back and forth to hear both contestants' views...

Yes, you have a very active imagination, MrWIA.

vondrack is offline vondrack

Emperor
Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 22-10-2003 15:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

astrologix is offline astrologix
Emperor
On Earth
Jun 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 24-10-2003 01:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Part IV (3100 BC - 2070 BC) Inflate your Upload Space

Curiously, at this stage, our military adviser said to us that we were stronger militarily than Netatolians, but, we had only 3 warriors and 1 worker !

In 3000 BC, an Arab scout (Webring) appeared in the North of Cervoise !



For us this news was a little worrying, because that revealed that we were placed between the two strongest civilizations in score! Fortunately, the diplomatic contact proved to be pleasant with Webring, differently than with CGN. Indeed, already before the incident of Floral-Park, Netatolians adopted a rather arrogant tone towards us. It was different with our new Arab neighbors, with whom one could allow some jokes in the exchanges.

With Netatolia, we had missed the initial technological exchange, before the incident of Obelix, because their requests were exorbitant. After the short war, we hoped that the tension was going to disappear gradually and that we would manage to exchange our Alphabet against one their technologies. But the problem was that Webring had already Alphabet. It was thus delicate for us that the scout arrives at the borders of Netatolia before we could not complete this exchange.

Fortunately, we had a good pretext to prevent their scout from passing towards the South, and the geographical situation also allowed it to us: to the turn following a settler left to found our second city, Cantal, just in the South of the isthmus separating our two cities. The scout was going to be blocked during some turns by our worker, thus leaving the time to parley with Netatolia without hurting our new German friends.

Cantal was founded in 2750 BC on a position militarily ideal, at the top of a hill. It was surrounded by good ground and a cow. We put our worker at the task at this place during several turns, blocking the scout of Webring.



In 2510 BC, we had Alphabet and Warrior Code moreover than CGN. In spite of our efforts to restore a good climate, Netatolia had become adamant on this point. Their arrogance was unbearable, to what was added that their army had become stronger than ours.

In 2230 BC, we finally let pass the scout against obtaining Ceremonial Burial of Webring. This moment, we had a very strong debate in the team, between those which preached a fast war based on archers and spearmen against Netatolia (considering our army was become again average with respect to theirs), and those which wanted to bet on the foundation of more cities. Considering we had only 2 cities and Netatolia certainly 3 or 4, we finally decided to continue the development and to await the final decision until the Iron Working (we were at 6 turns of the discovery). We would know thus if there were or not an iron layer in the vicinity, in order to being able to build swordsmen.




The sites preferred for our 3rd city were the 1 and the 4. The 2 was considered to be very provocative towards Netatolia, since they had let us know that they claimed the spice deposits close to Floral-Park, and the 3 did not seem to offer enough defense in the event of a fast war.

Considering that in 2150 Ottomans (CGN) founded Arlington on the site of spices, we made the decision to almost simultaneously found 2 new cities, initially on site 4 (Cantal settler) then on site 1 (settler of Cervoise). Our explorer had just discovered an ivory site at the North, but this site was considered to be too remote for a city which could not have supported an effective effort of war at this stage.



In 2070 BC we sent the Cantal settler towards site 4, and Cervoise was in 4 turns to produce theirs. We were at 2 turns to the discovery of Iron Works. The things were going soon to be clarified...

(to follow....)

Last edited by astrologix on 24-10-2003 at 01:24

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:31
  Old Post 24-10-2003 07:39 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Great reading astro! Keep it coming!

rush is offline rush
Prince
Tokyo
Jul 2002
time: 12:31
  Old Post 24-10-2003 11:02
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

A picture is better than 1000 words.

And we have so many pictures Great work astrologix.

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0631 seconds (90.35% PHP - 9.65% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net