23-10-2003 01:12									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

thanks

	23-10-2003 01:15									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

yeah, but you're a girl. that alone sends a bunch of the people here into twitters.

	23-10-2003 01:20									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, at least it works for me somewhere. Doesn't do a damn thing for me in RL, that's for sure.

	23-10-2003 01:22									#34
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hey, we should set up a st_swithin fan club, like the ones we had for blackwidow and femmeadonis...

	23-10-2003 01:27									#35
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Thanks. I'm not sure if my poor little Asian-influenced sense of humility could stand the pressure though.

	23-10-2003 02:56									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident we have many better ways of generating electricity. but we still have crappy ways of storing electricity

One word: Hydrogen. I recently saw a TV program about the "hydrogen revolution", very interesting.

Let me see...
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/hydrogen.html
http://people.howstuffworks.com/hydrogen-economy.htm
http://www.emagazine.com/january-fe.../0103feat1.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story...,793581,00.html

	23-10-2003 07:33									#37
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even with bush's investment, it's not going to happen. it's fuel cells or bust.

to develop an infrastructure based around hydrogen would be extraordinarily expensive, not to mention difficult to actually roll out.

	23-10-2003 07:38									#38
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay Oh crap my cellphone has run dry let me go fill it up

Yeah -- don't you hate it when that happens?

	23-10-2003 08:39									#39
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell We're going to find that some liquids do it better than others. A far-off distant place will hold most of the liquids. We will endlessly meddle in their affairs. I'll stick to supporting solar + hydrogen + hydro + nuclear, at least until these things become seriously efficient.

You say you're going to support the types of energy you mentioned only until they become more efficient, then AFTER they become more efficient, you're not going to support them?

	23-10-2003 09:05									#40
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I want to see what happens with the pentaparticles. Maybe they'll find a use for the quarktets.

	23-10-2003 11:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed even with bush's investment, it's not going to happen. it's fuel cells or bust. to develop an infrastructure based around hydrogen would be extraordinarily expensive, not to mention difficult to actually roll out.

we did it with gasoline. It's not like it's impossible.

	23-10-2003 16:38									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

--"we did it with gasoline. It's not like it's impossible."

Depends how you're defining impossible. Certianly not impossible from a technical standpoint, but there are a couple things to consider.
One is that we've already got a distribution system for gasoline. When we built that infrastructure, there wasn't one for anything directly competitive (unless you want to count coal, but there weren't ever many coal-burning cars). Replacing a legacy system is always going to be more difficult than creating a new one from scratch.
Second is that the technology would be more difficult. Hydrogen isn't the easiest stuff to move around. The best bet would be to use things like the mini-nuke plant in the other thread to have point-production scattered around where necessary, but politically that one will never happen (NIMBY, etc). Unfortunately, that doesn't leave much. I don't think solar or wind are reliable and predictable enough for people to want to base a business (ie. their hydro-gas station) off of them, and if we're making it with power from coal and oil... well, what's the point? Hydrogen just doesn't transport well, which means it doesn't lend itself to a few large-scale factories and distribution centers.

Wraith
"I'm an engineer, not a normal person."
-- Dilbert ("Dilbert")

	24-10-2003 04:56									#43
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yes, we did it with gasoline. but gasoline, after it was rolled out, was very quickly profitable.

i don't see the same result with h. too many people will be using the old cars, using old engines, and gasoline will be cheaper, at least for the first few years, if not permanently.

unless it's heavily subsidized by the government, even as it runs at heavy losses for several years, the infrastructure will not develop.

	24-10-2003 05:23									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You say you're going to support the types of energy you mentioned only until they become more efficient, then AFTER they become more efficient, you're not going to support them?

'These things' refers to the runnnig water devices

	24-10-2003 07:26									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

LOL. I bet if you simply rub silk ( or should it be wool?) against a glass wand you'll get more electricity, and with less energy expenditure. Sure, their work is interesting. But it doesn't justify the kind of fuss produced around it (well, it seems that U of A excels at publicity). As people here already pointed out, all this makes sense only if it is (at least, remotely) feasible to get more energy out of it than the energy pumped in to pump the water flow. Unfortunately, the cited article avoids mentioning this problem at all. So, for now, it looks like exploding an atomic bomb in order to heat up a cup of coffee. Any comparison with solar batteries is irrelevant and confusing, since we don't need to pump any energy for them to work (the energy comes from the sun). As for the physical effect itself, it was known before. But, again, their work is interesting and important, if only because they've achieved a better quantitative understanding of the effect. They've done a good job (at least, the graduate student Yang did ), and they don't deserve such a false and silly publicity.

quote: a new method of generating electric power by harnessing the natural electrokinetic properties of a liquid such as ordinary tap water, by pumping fluids through tiny microchannels.

Pumping fluids through tiny microchannels requires a hell lot of energy by itself, and is itself a subject of studies how to do it more efficiently.

But on the other hand, I can imagine a practical application on a "by-product" basis. For example, if you have a system where water gets pumped through tiny microchannels anyway (for some other reason), why not to harness the electricity thereby produced. Perhaps even a small amount of electricity produced in this way will be useful for something within the same device.

	24-10-2003 07:30									#46
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

St_swithin....you're awesome!

-=Vel=-
(and sign me up for that fan club!)

	24-10-2003 09:20									#47
	Got spare money?

I wonder how many flavours those quarktets are gonna come in...probably a multiple of 5.

	24-10-2003 09:28									#48
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you have to take baby steps before you can sprint people

don't hate congratulate

	24-10-2003 09:28									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i don't see the same result with h. too many people will be using the old cars, using old engines, and gasoline will be cheaper, at least for the first few years, if not permanently.

Economic incentives could do wonders

	24-10-2003 16:54									#50
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i mention that:

quote: unless it's heavily subsidized by the government, even as it runs at heavy losses for several years, the infrastructure will not develop.

	24-10-2003 17:41									#51
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quote: Why not? I'm just as big a geek as the next guy.

You have a better sense of absurd timing than the other people here.

It certainly has nothing to do with you being a woman. I don't treat Q Cubed any different because she's a chick.

	24-10-2003 18:00									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: It certainly has nothing to do with you being a woman. I don't treat Q Cubed any different because she's a chick.

what makes you think i'm a girl?

	25-10-2003 08:13									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Q^3 is a woman?

	25-10-2003 08:24									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oh yeah, BTW

The first new one in "160 years"? So nuclear power was not found within the last 160 years? I assume ol' Ben Franklin drew up the designs for a nuclear power plant, eh?

Hasn't electricity (the harnessing of it) only been around for so much longer than that, anyways?

	25-10-2003 08:34									#55
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quote: Q^3 is a woman?

might explain why i don't have a thing for britney, if ted striker's to be believed.

but my gf thinks i have a flat chest. i just asked.

	25-10-2003 12:06									#56
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Oh yeah, BTW The first new one in "160 years"? So nuclear power was not found within the last 160 years? I assume ol' Ben Franklin drew up the designs for a nuclear power plant, eh? Hasn't electricity (the harnessing of it) only been around for so much longer than that, anyways?

The thing about nuclear power is nuclear fission does not actually produce electricity. A nuclear reactor is essentually a big heater.

It is a generator spun by a steam turbine that produces the electricty. That method of producing electricity has been around for a while.

	26-10-2003 03:26									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Q^3: ask your gf if you have no a55 too.

DT: must have been all those episodes of Monty Python's I viewed as a child, seeping into my present-day absurdity.

Vel: You're my new hero!!

	26-10-2003 05:50									#58
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*contemplates being St_Swithin's hero*





-=Vel=-

	26-10-2003 06:20									#59
	Re: First discovery of a new electricity source in more than 160 years... Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Asher http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/...m?p_ID=5117&s=0 The benefits look great, at least for devices with low current requirements, given that the technology matures. Can the physics-types here give their opinion on this? Also see the BBC article and The Globe & Mail.

Yeah. My opinion is that

a) They'll never get close to the energy density of a battery using this method.

b) We already have a method of generating power via pressure differential; it's called a turbine, and is almost certainly more efficient.

c) Who the hell wants water flowing through an electronic device?

It's interesting but silly. I can guarantee that turbulence going to heating up waterflow is stealing more energy from you than is reasonable.

	26-10-2003 06:24									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

KrazyHorse - how could it even work at all? Would the water have to be flowing continuously for it to store energy? Isn't it no different from using a flywheel as a battery? Won't it stop because of friction?