21-10-2003 11:14									#1
	First discovery of a new electricity source in more than 160 years... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/...m?p_ID=5117&s=0

quote: Researchers generate electricity from tap water By Phoebe Dey October 20, 2003 – What started as a simple conversation between two University of Alberta engineering professors has led to the first discovery of a new electricity source in more than 160 years--from flowing tap water. The U of A research, published today by the Institute of Physics journal, Journal of Micromechanics and Microengineering, reveals a new method of generating electric power by harnessing the natural electrokinetic properties of a liquid such as ordinary tap water, by pumping fluids through tiny microchannels. A team of researchers and students, led by Dr. Daniel Kwok and Dr. Larry Kostiuk, has created a new source of clean non-polluting electric power with a variety of possible uses, ranging from powering small electronic devices such as cell phones to contributing to a national power grid. The project started soon after Kostiuk was appointed chair of the university's Department of Mechanical Engineering. When Kostiuk made his rounds to learn what his colleagues were studying, he listened to Kwok describe his work with electrokinetics--the science of electrical charges in moving substances, such as water. In that meeting Kwok explained how, when water travels over a surface, the ions that it is made up of "rub" against the solid, leaving the surface slightly charged. "Then Larry said to me, 'well that sounds like a battery to me,' and I just paused and then realized what he said," said Kwok. "This shows the importance of interdisciplinary work--sometimes we focus so much on our research that we aren't able to take a step back and see what others can see." Initial efforts generated such a minute amount of energy the task was thought "impossible," said Jun Yang, a graduate student working towards his PhD in mechanical engineering who designed the experiment at Kwok's request. But Yang, who came to the U of A from the Beijing Institute of Technology two years ago, wanted to try again. The idea, he says, was magnificent. "This phenomenon has been known for several hundred years," said Yang. "But no one had ever thought about it in this way." Yang and Kwok exchanged ideas on ways to increase the amount of energy generated by increasing the number of channels they forced water through. The team, which includes graduate student Fuzhi Lu, has been able to improve on the results detailed in their research paper, generating 20 times as much energy and illuminating LED lights by exploiting the coupling between electrokinetic phenomena and the hydrodynamics of liquid flow. "This discovery could be a new alternative energy source to rival wind and solar power, although this would need huge bodies of water to work on a commercial scale," said Kostiuk. "Hydrocarbon fuels are still the best source of energy but they're fast running out and so new options like this one could be vital in the future. "This technology could provide a new power source for devices such as mobile phones or calculators which could be charged up by pumping water to high pressure." Although the power generated from a single channel is extremely small, millions of parallel channels can be used to increase the power output. More work will be needed to further understand this new means to produce power. The discovery has made headlines around the world. One reason for the interest in the development is that there are a very limited number of ways to generate electricity. Most methods were discovered in the early 1800s. Kwok and Kostiuk's work represents the first new discovery to generate electricity since 1839, when Sir William Robert Grove, considered the father of the fuel cell, developed two electrochemical batteries. One was used in telegraph operations and the second was the forerunner of modern fuel cells. The same year, Edmond Becquerel discovered how to generate electricity from sunlight. Dr. David Lynch, Dean of the Faculty of Engineering, praised the team for rigour and creativity. "The discovery of an entirely new way of producing power is an incredible fundamental research breakthrough. It has been more than 160 years since the last such fundamental discoveries that have now led to the current applications associated with solar cells and fuel cells. This ground-breaking discovery of an electrokinetic effect that can generate electricity could be equally revolutionary," he said. "It will earn these engineering researchers and the University of Alberta a place of prominence in scientific journals and textbooks for decades to come and electrokinetic cells may find significant applications in numerous commercial areas." The environmental benefit of clean energy conversion using safe, renewable materials is motivating the team to explore how their prototype device may be developed into a battery for commercial use. The inventors are working with the U of A's Technology Transfer Group (TTG) to develop a commercialization strategy for the work. A patent application has been filed by the university to obtain broad, early protection of the invention. The TTG is conducting an in-depth evaluation of the market opportunities. The research was funded in part by a Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) grant. Dr. Kwok's work is also supported by the Alberta Ingenuity Fund.

The benefits look great, at least for devices with low current requirements, given that the technology matures. Can the physics-types here give their opinion on this?

Also see the BBC article and The Globe & Mail.

	21-10-2003 11:19									#2
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It will never work.

	21-10-2003 11:22									#3
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Sounds like capillary action to me.

	21-10-2003 11:28									#4
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Oh crap my cellphone has run dry let me go fill it up

	21-10-2003 11:37									#5
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So they're basically going to use running water (in the example of a Hydro-electric power plant) to generate electricity to power water pumps which will in turn generate electricity?



Input 1 Megajoule : Output 1 Joule?

Hmmm ...

	21-10-2003 11:53									#6
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Sounds like the propeller heads are doing good things. Carry on.

	21-10-2003 12:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay Oh crap my cellphone has run dry let me go fill it up

More like, "my cell phone died -- can I borrow that firehose?"

	21-10-2003 12:10									#8
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Much ado about nothing.

	21-10-2003 12:13									#9
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What do you mean? China should be able to power... something big, just from their faucets.

What? You mean they don't all have running water? Sorry.

	21-10-2003 12:30									#10
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My Masters thesis was on electrokinetics so this has some special interest to me. I would not call this a new discovery, as electrokinetic phenomena has been known for ages. What's new is the ability to generate enough energy to do something useful with it. But I wonder if the electrokinetic power yield from a flow of water is even closely comparable to the power yield that could be gained from a mechanical turbine. I don't think so.

You need a huge matrix of capillaries to get enough surface area, which would make an electrokinetic power generator very expensive. Furthermore, the ionic content in fresh water is perhaps not optimal for natural rivers to be attractive enough for electrokinetic power plants. Perhaps tidal currents would though.

In any case, they have to prove its efficiency over mechanical turbines before I believe in it.

The suggestions they have to charge electrokinetic batteries by pumping up the water pressure once in a while could be applied to micro-mechanical turbines as well.

	21-10-2003 15:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither What do you mean? China should be able to power... something big, just from their faucets. What? You mean they don't all have running water? Sorry.

China will wait until another nation develops it. If they can't see the solution immediately, they dismiss it. It reminds me of when I asked a Chinese friend why she doesn't play tennis with us. She said that since she is afraid that she will not be immediately good at it, it isn't worth trying.

	21-10-2003 16:01									#12
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My calculator is fed with a small solar panel that gives enough energy even in mild-light environment. If their discovery can only give that little power, I say solar panels all the way.

	21-10-2003 20:38									#13
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Interesting indeed.

But they did say water would have to be pumped to high pressure, which negates any large scale commercial use. You would be putting too much energy in and getting little out.

But it could have some use as in batteries. You know on those hybrid cars, or electric cars. We all know how dismal the battery technology is. Toxic chemicals, limited lifespan, cost, and weight. Though this water technology sounds like it would take up too much room to be on a vehicle. But we'll see how the technology fleshes out.

	21-10-2003 22:05									#14
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I dont see how they would be able to use this to generate power. Could not Hydro Electric dams produce more power then a electrokinetic plant? I could see using this technology in Hydro Electric Dams to increase the electricity they produce. But I doubt it could be use any other way.

	21-10-2003 22:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www ... I could see using this technology in Hydro Electric Dams to increase the electricity they produce. But I doubt it could be use any other way.

I don't think it would increase the output of a hydroelectric power plant. The power you gain from the stack of capillaries will cause a pressure drop to the flowing water that will decrease the yield from the mechanical generator. Or the other way around, if you put the electrokinetic genarator downstream. If not, you would be able to infinitely generate more power by adding more and more electrokinetic generators in series and create a Perpeutum Mobile.

What really decides the usefulnes of this invention is:
1) The power yield of the generator compared to the yield of traditional hydroelectricity. How much electrical power can you squeeze out from a given flow of water?
2) The investment and operation cost of a electrokinetic plant compared to a hydroelectric. How much maintenance does a electrokinetic generator need to work properly? Does it need to be backwashed every hour and will you have to make-up the active surface once in a while?

	21-10-2003 22:47									#16
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I also would think if they used tap water it would clog easily.

especially in cities like mine with hard water.

And you are bound to get some headloss with a system like that. So any use on a river will have environmental impact.

You just can't soak up every ounce of kinetic energy from a river.

but like I said before, there is a small possibility of future use as a battery.

	22-10-2003 00:44									#17
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It could be good, or it could become another 'also-ran' technology, like airships or mechanical computers.

	22-10-2003 01:13									#18
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Hmmm.. interesting. I'd like to see some numbers...

	22-10-2003 01:16									#19
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If they're using tap water... hasn't electicity already been used to pump the water in the first place? So it's just a way of transporting energy. We already something that does that quite well: wires.

	22-10-2003 01:35									#20
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I'll mention it again

batteries.

we have many better ways of generating electricity. but we still have crappy ways of storing electricity

	22-10-2003 01:40									#21
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I agree. Our fuel cells suck big time.

	22-10-2003 01:43									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'll mention it again batteries. we have many better ways of generating electricity. but we still have crappy ways of storing electricity

So you want us to store it in flowing water?

	22-10-2003 01:52									#23
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if it proves to be feasible.

if not, then we will just have another technology that did not come to anything.

We actually had some idea to store water on top of a hill for use as electricity in my city. The plan isn't/wasn't really practical. Too much cost, and it would have to be covered to prevent evaporation losses.

But the problem we run into is we are forced to buy electricty at 4:00 PM in the summer where we are gouged by companies like Enron. We had similar problem that California had. Too much demand, not enough supply. If we could somehow store electricity at night in which electricity is cheap, and then use it when electrical demand is at its highest, then we may be on to something. But the trick is the cost of this cannot be higher than the difference between the off peak power rates and the peak power rates.

	22-10-2003 01:56									#24
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I hear solar power is making a comeback.

	22-10-2003 01:57									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident if it proves to be feasible.

It CAN'T be feasible. How would you keep the water running, without constant power input? It's like trying to use a flywheel as a battery - it will run down on it's own, and can't be moved.

	22-10-2003 02:01									#26
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We're going to find that some liquids do it better than others. A far-off distant place will hold most of the liquids. We will endlessly meddle in their affairs.

I'll stick to supporting solar + hydrogen + hydro + nuclear, at least until these things become seriously efficient.

	22-10-2003 02:11									#27
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All I know is, nobody better build a perpetual motion device. IN THIS HOUSE WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS, YOUNG LADY!!

	22-10-2003 20:15									#28
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker It's like trying to use a flywheel as a battery - it will run down on it's own, and can't be moved.

Flywheels are a good way of storing kinetic energy.

	22-10-2003 20:20									#29
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quote: All I know is, nobody better build a perpetual motion device. IN THIS HOUSE WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS, YOUNG LADY!!

Apolyton doesn't deserve you, honestly.

	23-10-2003 01:10									#30
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Why not? I'm just as big a geek as the next guy.