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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:31
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Can anyone please tell me when a major world Jewish or Israeli leader called all Muslims (as opposed to specific "militant groups") terrorists?
Can anyone explain to me why, if the Jews have all the world behind them, the US is generally alone in vetoing UNSC resolutions condemning Israel?
Ha'aretz
'BANGKOK, Thailand - Malaysian Prime Minister
Mahathir Mohamad said Tuesday, in response to a
question from Haaretz, that a press conference
Tuesday he would be willing to come to Israel to
explain his charges against the Jewish people, if
the leadership of world Jewry would first explain
why they refer to Muslims as terrorists.
"I would [visit Israel] after the Jewish leadership would
go the Muslim countries and explain why they call Muslims terrorists," he said. "That would be fair. Then I will go to Tel Aviv and explain why I said what I said."
Asked by Haaretz to clarify his controversial speech last week, in which he stated that Jews ruled the world and exercised power by getting other people to fight and die
for them, Mahathir said, "My speech was very clear. I said that the Jews have all the world behind them
and that's why they can defy the United Nations." '
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
There is a "world Jewry" that has "leaders" ? Oh my God, does this mean the ZOG was true all along ? 
 What a cretin |
well theres a group called the World Jewish Congress (which speaks for its own member organizations only, of course) headed ISTR by Edgar Bronfman, but Im quite sure he never called muslims in general "terrorists". I doubt thats who Mahathir is talking about.
I dont think Mahathir has ANYONE in mind. Its just rhetoric that plays well, is all. Now if Mahathir had gotten up and talked about how the muslim world needs to strengthen itself cause of the settlements, and dead Pal children, and the US supporting Israel, etc i might disagree, but I would at least see where hes coming from and i would understand why the muslim world agrees. When stuff like this comes out, and its almost universally accepted as reasonable in the muslim world, its troubling to say the least. And goes well beyond any specific Israeli policies.
And if y'all think im obsessed with this, please see my point of view. Now I know Mahathir (like most muslims) opposes al qaeeda. I know that Mahathir (like some muslims) wants to negotiate with Israel, though he thinks the Taba proposal unacceptable. I know Pals have legitimate grievance, etc, etc.
But 60 years ago one third of my people were murdered (including my great grandfather, and 3 of my wifes 4 grandparents) by people who claimed that the Jews secretly ruled the world. Now along comes a head of state and claims that Jews secretly rule the world. And virtually no one in the Islamic world, which represents over a quarter of humanity, will contradict him. And when challenged, he uses the Western condemnation of his remarks as "proof" that Jews do rule the world !!Wouldnt you be nervous?
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:31
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This makes me feel a little better.
quote:
Listening to Mahathir
By PAUL KRUGMAN
New York Times
Published: October 21, 2003
The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them." So said Mahathir Mohamad, the prime minister of Malaysia, at an Islamic summit meeting last week. The White House promptly denounced his "hate-filled remarks."
Indeed, those remarks were inexcusable. But they were also calculated for Mr. Mahathir is a cagey politician, who is neither ignorant nor foolish. And to understand why he made those remarks is to realize how badly things are going for U.S. foreign policy.
The fact is that Mr. Mahathir, though guilty of serious abuses of power, is in many ways about as forward-looking a Muslim leader as we're likely to find. And Malaysia is the kind of success story we wish we saw more of: an impressive record of economic growth, rising education levels and general modernization in a nation with a Muslim majority.
It's worth reading the rest of last week's speech, beyond the offensive 28 words. Most of it is criticism directed at other Muslims, clerics in particular. Mr. Mahathir castigates "interpreters of Islam who taught that acquisition of knowledge by Muslims meant only the study of Islamic theology." Thanks to these interpreters, "the study of science, medicine, etc. was discouraged. Intellectually the Muslims began to regress." A lot of the speech sounds as if it had been written by Bernard Lewis, author of "What Went Wrong," the best-selling book about the Islamic decline.
So what's with the anti-Semitism? Almost surely it's part of Mr. Mahathir's domestic balancing act, something I learned about the last time he talked like this, during the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98.
At that time, rather than accept the austerity programs recommended by the U.S. government and the I.M.F., he loudly blamed machinations by Western speculators, and imposed temporary controls on the outflow of capital a step denounced by all but a handful of Western economists. As it turned out, his economic strategy was right: Malaysia suffered a shallower slump and achieved a quicker recovery than its neighbors.
What became clear watching Mr. Mahathir back then was that his strident rhetoric was actually part of a delicate balancing act aimed at domestic politics. Malaysia has a Muslim, ethnically Malay, majority, but its business drive comes mainly from an ethnic Chinese minority. To keep the economy growing, Mr. Mahathir must allow the Chinese minority to prosper, but to ward off ethnic tensions he must throw favors, real and rhetorical, to the Malays.
Part of that balancing act involves reserving good jobs for Malay workers and giving special business opportunities to Malay entrepreneurs. One reason Mr. Mahathir was so adamantly against I.M.F. austerity plans was that he feared that they would disrupt the carefully managed cronyism that holds his system together. When times are tough, Mr. Mahathir also throws the Muslim majority rhetorical red meat.
And that's what he was doing last week. Not long ago Washington was talking about Malaysia as an important partner in the war on terror. Now Mr. Mahathir thinks that to cover his domestic flank, he must insert hateful words into a speech mainly about Muslim reform. That tells you, more accurately than any poll, just how strong the rising tide of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism among Muslims in Southeast Asia has become. Thanks to its war in Iraq and its unconditional support for Ariel Sharon, Washington has squandered post-9/11 sympathy and brought relations with the Muslim world to a new low.
And bear in mind that Mr. Mahathir's remarks were written before the world learned about the views of Lt. Gen. William "My God Is Bigger Than Yours" Boykin. By making it clear that he sees nothing wrong with giving an important post in the war on terror to someone who believes, and says openly, that Allah is a false idol General Boykin denies that's what he meant, but his denial was implausible even by current standards Donald Rumsfeld has gone a long way toward confirming the Muslim world's worst fears.
Somewhere in Pakistan Osama bin Laden must be enjoying this. The war on terror didn't have to be perceived as a war on Islam, but we seem to be doing our best to make it look that way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/21/opinion/21KRUG.html |
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:31
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This makes you feel better? Krugman says that its Bush's fault this plays well in the Muslim world. ISTR Mahathir spouting similar stuff since 1998, when Clinton war President. Krugaman goes on to compare it to Boykin. Now Boykin is an idiot, and should be fired, but he's NOT a head of state, and I dont see what they have to do with this. Krugman should go back to writing about economics.
'And that's what he was doing last week. Not long ago Washington was talking about Malaysia as an important partner in the war on terror. Now Mr. Mahathir thinks that to cover his domestic flank, he must insert hateful words into a speech mainly about Muslim reform. That tells you, more accurately than any poll, just how strong the rising tide of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism among Muslims in Southeast Asia has become. Thanks to its war in Iraq and its unconditional support for Ariel Sharon, Washington has squandered post-9/11 sympathy and brought relations with the Muslim world to a new low.
And bear in mind that Mr. Mahathir's remarks were written before the world learned about the views of Lt. Gen. William "My God Is Bigger Than Yours" Boykin. By making it clear that he sees nothing wrong with giving an important post in the war on terror to someone who believes, and says openly, that Allah is a false idol General Boykin denies that's what he meant, but his denial was implausible '
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Tripledoc
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Strange. How come no one complained when Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform compared the estate tax with the Holocaust? Maybe it had something to do with that he was the architect behind Bush's socalled tax policy, or that he is Republican, or maybe that he is just an average American White Christian.
Either the American people are stupid or they are being deliberately misled by their media. I mean a man who degrades the Holocaust in such fashion should never, ever be allowed to meddle in American politics. He should be banished and publicly ridiculed. Mahatnir did not even question the existince and more to the point the moral impact of the catastrophe that was the Holocaust. People should be more aware of the insidious snakes in their backyard, than what goes on in a distant neighborhood.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Probably cause Norquist is just a lobbyist for lower taxes, going on about taxes. Whereas Mahathir is a head of state, and his views seem to have traction throughout the Islamic world. And there are no distance neighborhoods anymore. |
Point taken.Globalization, Global Reach and all that. but still the word is: 'think globally, act locally'. That holds true in this case too. Also Mahatnir is retiring from office soon. This Norquist character will have more impact on the life of the average American than Mahatnir will ever have in the time to come. Therefore my position is: take a stand and not only when it is politically opportunistic to do so, but also when it will cost you something.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
then let me clarify
based on what you say ( i havent seen the quote) Norquist was using the holocaust as metaphor, and trivializing it. This is unfortunately not uncommon at all - "the feminazis wont let me say sexist remarks" or "my boss at the plant is like Hitler" Its stupid, its in bad taste, but its not antisemitism, and has no real effect on anything much.
What Matahir did was to proclaim a war of Muslims against Jews, to claim Jews ran the world, etc. A far different thing. |
There is a difference. Norquist is a public figure. He said it on a radio talk show. He has influence. He is one among the few who are the power behind the throne. you know what kind of sentiments he is talking too. It is those who think 'oh no Big Government, UN, ZOG, and what have you'. He is creating a sense of paranoia. The bad people are out to get us, and they want to put us into camps and so on.
It is acceptable that people make jokes about the Nazis. However when you have a policy which says that what the American tax payer has to endure is in any way comparable to the Holocaust, then this is so far out I can't believe it.
Also Mahatnir did not invent this whole the 'the Muslims against the Jews' scenario. In fact, and this is where I can't agree with him, something Krugman of NY Times alludes too also, Mahatnir is actually agreeing with what people like Samuel Huntington for instance has tried to push for all along: that is a 'battle between civilizations' which will eventually engulf the whole world. The whole issue of pointing out his alleged anti-semitic remarks distracts from the real issue at hand, namely that Mahatnir is simply yet another conservative who wish for another (cold) World War. He is playing the game Sharon and Bush want him to play - pushing the worlds into monolithic opposing camps.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
There is a difference. Norquist is a public figure. He said it on a radio talk show. He has influence. He is one among the few who are the power behind the throne. you know what kind of sentiments he is talking too. It is those who think 'oh no Big Government, UN, ZOG, and what have you'. He is creating a sense of paranoia. The bad people are out to get us, and they want to put us into camps and so on.
It is acceptable that people make jokes about the Nazis. However when you have a policy which says that what the American tax payer has to endure is in any way comparable to the Holocaust, then this is so far out I can't believe it.
Also Mahatnir did not invent this whole the 'the Muslims against the Jews' scenario. In fact, and this is where I can't agree with him, something Krugman of NY Times alludes too also, Mahatnir is actually agreeing with what people like Samuel Huntington for instance has tried to push for all along: that is a 'battle between civilizations' which will eventually engulf the whole world. The whole issue of pointing out his alleged anti-semitic remarks distracts from the real issue at hand, namely that Mahatnir is simply yet another conservative who wish for another (cold) World War. He is playing the game Sharon and Bush want him to play - pushing the worlds into monolithic opposing camps. |
hi ,
neither Sharon or Bush want him to play any games at all , ......
have a nice day
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21-10-2003 19:27
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