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MysteryMan
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Hey everyone, I've noticed that there are some people here who REALLY know their stuff. Some of that can be developed through playing the game, and some of it can be aquired through study. This is where this thread comes in.
If you have (ever or recently) read a book that inspired you to a new strategy (or a new tactic), post it here. Such books need not be restricted to purely military matters, so long as they get people thinking along different lines of thought that they can (hopefully) use to kick some tail in civIII.
So if you have something to add to this list, please do, and please add a short review of what the hapless reader can expect from the book. This idea occured to me at school, but as soon as I get home I will go through my bookshelf and decide which of my titles belong here and add a few more.
(format is 'Author', 'Title')
1)Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
I'm sure most people here have at least heard of it. Most experts seem to agree that it was written about 600BC, which makes the book all the more thouroughly remarkable in that it still applies today, and not only in the realm of military combat, but in every single observable form of conflict thoughout the world. DEFINETELY a MUST no matter what, IMHO even the most uneducated and illiterate knob should have read this book. Very short and very deep. You can read it in a day (if you're a slow reader) but re-read it twenty times and get a new understanding each time.
2)Robert Henlien, Starship Troopers.
First of all, do not judge the book by the movie. That being said, this is one of the best books I have ever read. It is well written and is as much entertainment as anything else. There is a great deal here about why we have soldiers, what their assigned role in a civilization is/should be, the power and price of the right to vote, etc. This book is so thought provoking that I almost put it above The Art of War, even though it is less directly applicable to Civ.
3)Jerry Pournelle, Prince of Sparta.
This falls as much into the 'entertainment' category as it does instruction. There are more books to this series but I cannot recall their titles. A very well written story about a society facing a guerilla/terrorist action. Goes into much depth about the root causes of terrorism, why it is so hard to combat, and what is necessary to combat it with. Entertaining, instructional, inspirational.
More to come. Post yours. I need some new reading material.
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vulture
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Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:31
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There was a short series on the BBC (that's the main UK broadcaster for those who don't know) a few years ago where they managed to get a group of army generals (active and retired I think) to play some wargames recreating famous battles (e.g. Waterloo - everyone's favourtite). It ws some kind of table-top wargame system, but I don't know what rules were used (it all seemed kind of made-up as they went along to be honest, rather than having a well-defined rule set).
The series itself didn't last long, and wasn't terribly interesting. But what was noticable was that some generals tried to use real world strategies and tactics - and did very badly, while others obviously came to grips fairly quickly with the constraints and quirks of the system, and used the rules to their advantage, to great effect.
The point being, that success was determined almost exclusively by how well they understood and used the rules of the game, and not at all by applying the correct points of real life military doctrine.
There are of course some lessons from real life that are useful (the importance of reserves, mobility, concentration of force, maneouver, dislocation) , but you still have to learn how to apply them within the constraints of the game you are playing. And against the AI you can do pretty well without these things if you understand the game mechanics well enough to take full advantage (you don't need good strategy if you can field an army twice the size of the AI's army).
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Yahweh Sabaoth
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The Heavens
Dec 2002
time: 05:31
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Reading and Civ
I find that after I've been playing civ, for, oh, I dunno, 4 hours or so, I start to feel really bad about myself. I mean, good lord. I should be doing SOMETHING with my life. Haven't I seen these little units march across the screen before? I'm a youn man. I should be writing music, or traveling the world, or hitting on women, or cleaning my apartment, or something. Instead, I'm playing Civ.
So I stop. I turn to literature, typically a book like "The Power Broker" or "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" or "Guns, Germs and Steel". I find that after playing so much Civ, I can only read about the unabased pursuit of power, and its disastarous effects on both the world and the individual psyche.
After reading about power-hungry mortals for an hour or two, I find I'm in the mood for Civ again. And then I can play, gleeful in the knowledge that I'm not actually causing the world immense suffering, but rather, conquering fake cities, subjugating fake lands, etc.
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David Murray
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I once read an inspirational book, the name of whose author sadly I cannot recall. It said, "The best way to win a war is to have lots of soldiers."
I can directly attribute it to my success with Civ3.
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infoscott
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-- The Prince, Nicolo Machiavelli --
I read this book in the last three months, after years of Civ2 play and about twelve months of Civ3 play. Before the book I had little clue and little concern over civ reputation, other than the obvious bit of not razing captured cities. After the book I understood much better the importance of reputation in avoiding unnecessary warfare and getting better terms in trade negotiation. My style used to be builder augmented with warfare, now I play mostly Machiavellian until the novelty wears off. My experience with Joan graduated from flirtation to infatuation.
-- The Book of Five Rings, Miyamoto Musashi --
I read this book seventeen years ago. When I remember its principles, it makes me a better player of the Samarai and Swordsmen units, especially in emphasis on getting them to Elite status
-- The Art of War, Sun Tzu --
I read it about once every few years. Several points have made me a better Civ3 player:
* Use of spies. Civ3 no longer has Diplomats/Spies, but it does have Scouts/Explorers. These units are spies in the traditional sense quite apart from the Espionage screen. I have also used a Chariot located on a hill top to spy on troop movements in an enemy territory, long after the unit was obsoleted. I now use submarines routinely as spies on naval troop movements
* Use of terrain. So many players use military rushes that they neglect or ignore the effects of terrain. How often do players use the river defense bonus or the fort bonus or the city on a hill bonus? How often to players force the enemy into bad terrain and deny them good terrain? How many times do players use terrain to hide units from the enemy's visibility? I use to leverage terrain advantage to the max while playing Civ2-Deity and am using it more and more as I progress up the difficulty tree in Civ3.
* Disguising weakness/hiding strength. When I first get a new decisive unit, such as knight, cavalry, or tank, I immediately park it near a border so my neighbors know I have the unit and will be afraid. It doesn't matter whether I have enough military to back up the "claim". Likewise sometimes I'll upgrade warriors to swordsmen to appear stronger in the power charts even if those units are nowhere near battle front, just to avoid war
During the Ancient Age I'll often bulk up on defensive units and hold back on offensive, while improving city and fort defenses. This encourages the more aggresive civs to wage war on me because I'm showing up weak on the strength charts. At the same time I might carry a large cash surplus. While doing this I'll keep a stockpile chariots and warriors. When the aggressor gets tempted by a quick plunder I'll quickly upgrade to swordsmen and horseman but let him dash his forces first on my built up defenses.
-- Epilogue --
I think too often the people that dismiss Sun Tzu haven't spent the necessary time studying his principles and applying them in their chosen scenarios.
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MysteryMan
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This is quoted, just cut and pasted, you all seem to know how to get exerpts, but I don't.
--->
* Use of spies...... I now use submarines routinely as spies on naval troop movements
--->
That's the only thing I build them for, especially since I have never seen a sub win a fight (except an AI sub once). This could be because I usually only use a navy on the higher levels.
--->
* Use of terrain. So many players use military rushes that they neglect or ignore the effects of terrain. How often do players use the river defense bonus or the fort bonus or the city on a hill bonus? How often to players force the enemy into bad terrain and deny them good terrain? How many times do players use terrain to hide units from the enemy's visibility? I use to leverage terrain advantage to the max while playing Civ2-Deity and am using it more and more as I progress up the difficulty tree in Civ3.
--->
I would get my butt handed to me every game if I didn't do that. I'd sure need to build a LOT of units (even at the best case....) Also, I wouldn't really feel like I was winning the game if all I did was build endless units accordig to someone else's formula. I'd rather paint a wall just to watch it dry...
--->
* Disguising weakness/hiding strength. When I first get a new decisive unit, such as knight, cavalry, or tank, I immediately park it near a border so my neighbors know I have the unit and will be afraid. It doesn't matter whether I have enough military to back up the "claim". Likewise sometimes I'll upgrade warriors to swordsmen to appear stronger in the power charts even if those units are nowhere near battle front, just to avoid war
---->
Very creative. I don't know how well this works against the AI, but most of us would fall for that ploy the first time we encountered it...
I never meant to suggest reading novels for specific tactics (ie: in this situation, build this unit and build lots of them). No one writes books about Civ III tactics. While most of my TACTICS do not come from such books (they come either from this place or wherever our ideas come from) all of my STRATEGIES do.
It is a shame that so many people skim and forget The Art of War. Actually, it is also a shame that less and less people read. If there was EVER an important idea ANYWHERE in history, someone wrote it down. It sure is a hell of a lot easier to read the explanations than it is to re-invent the wheel every time something new comes up...
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22-10-2003 02:24
That said I don't think it would be very possible even if the book was all about war strategy.
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