22-10-2003 22:31									#1
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Turn arrived. At the first glance, nothing special happened. I see a stack of catapults 6 of the Alamo, guarded by 5 riders. Apparently the catapults are recaptured. Our misguided stack of knights is alive and well.

We need to discuss our further plans thoroughly. There has been a lot of guesses and assumptions and proposals and fears here around, but nothing I would call a plan. Attack in the south, yes or no? Yellowknife, yes or no? Suing for peace? Going after Gunpowder? Buying it? What about Lego?

I sent the save to both of our generals. I could play the turn in about 2-3 hours, but I doubt that it will be discussed until then. Feel free to play the turn, but I don't think we should hurry.

	22-10-2003 23:32									#2
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What defence is showing in Merida?

	22-10-2003 23:36									#3
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Merida has changed sides (ND now) and has a pikeman in it.

	23-10-2003 01:11									#4
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I will load up the turn when I get home and have a look.

-Arrian

	23-10-2003 04:18									#5
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THE SOUTH:

Damn, do I ever wish our 10 knight stack was up by The Alamo. But nevermind that...

An attack on Merida would suffer from the 25% defense bonus given by a river, and the units that win would be left exposed to counterattack during ND & GoW's turns. Seems like a good way to lose our knights to me.

I think we may have to move all available forces to Barcelona 4441. Everything we've got, fellas. Next turn, all knights move 88 to the mountain 36 of the Alamo. The 1-movers... well, I'm not sure yet. They either advance with the workers (from Barce4) and continue the road, or they fortify while the workers build a fortress.

*by the way, are all of those workers really workers?*

We have some units on Barcelona 8 (pike, med inf, cat). I'd move them to Barcelona4. Turn after, move to end of road to join the others.

Our two knights next to Essibar... well, Ess is showing a regular pikeman. That is likely all they have in it. We could probably destroy it with our 2 veteran knights, but will almost surely lose them either during the fight for Ess or in counterattack. So it may be best to fortify them on that mountain as lookouts.

Our galley needs to retreat one tile north or east.

THE NORTH:

I honestly don't know. I'm torn. Do we hit GoW? Do we hit ND? Do we scrap the northern attack and throw everything back south?

Theseus, you around?

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 23-10-2003 at 04:30

	23-10-2003 04:21									#6
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ADDITION to THE SOUTH:

Load 7 knights + 1 settler into the galleys off the Stormian coast by O.Gale. 2 of these galleys have movement left, 2 do not. Try to get pure knights in the ones with movement (to then move 4 tiles due west) and 3 knights + settler into the ones that are out of moves.

-Arrian

	23-10-2003 04:27									#7
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As for city build orders, I say we take some of our major cities off of units and switch to civilian production. For instance (but this isn't a full list):

-Aqueduct in Dissville
-Uni in Hurricane
-Uni in EotS
-Uni in Tempest
-Market in Tornado

...

Oh, back to military things: switch O.Gale to a galley, I think, instead of a horseman.

-Arrian

	23-10-2003 20:27									#8
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I got distracted by RL last evening...

Who will play the turn? I am not available till around 9pm EST tonight.

I should be able to post some comments mid-afternoon.

	23-10-2003 21:02									#9
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The 3 ND galleys need to be sunk in a few turns, RP have one galley off the coast of Barcelona and another which is probably too far north, east of the ND city of Mavdad iirc.

The fact that the galleys are still alive could be distressing for the enemy, they know GS has a large navy, so we must be doing something with it if we haven't killed their galleys yet.
We could even delay their sinking for a while to really scare the crap out of them.

	23-10-2003 21:09									#10
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Main things I need you to think about, my fellow general:

1) Do you concur we should consolidate everything we can on Barcelona 4441, in preparation for a move on The Alamo? I think we've GOT to get that city back. Further, I feel that attacking Merida is a sure way to get a bunch of knights killed for minimal gain.

2) What do you think about the 2 knights by Essibar? Hit or fortify?

3) What about the north? We're in a position to load up a bunch of galleys with troops. The question is: where do we drop them off? Do we proceed with the Yellowknife landing? Do we go after ND instead?

-Arrian

p.s. I think RP is in serious danger of losing Pamp. Do we want to move any of our pikemen that we have stationed throughout RP territory closer to the city, in case it falls and we are in the position of trying to take it back (assuming GoW/ND don't raze it)?

	23-10-2003 21:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian 3) What about the north? We're in a position to load up a bunch of galleys with troops. The question is: where do we drop them off? Do we proceed with the Yellowknife landing? Do we go after ND instead?

I think due to the turn order a landing in GoW territory would be better as ND wouldn't be aware of it on their turn and so only GoW would be able to react.

	23-10-2003 22:17									#12
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I could play the turn now, within the next hour, but I see the discussion still going on. I probably won't be able to play later, I'm tired as hell (my usual problem at evenings, misunderstandings like the misguided knight stack result from this) and should probably abstain from playing in this condition.

Especially our honorable military leaders should try to find a common language. If you ask me: Stop all attack plans on Bob. The only one who profits from this is Lego. Defend the RP remainders, meanwhile switch the homeland to "builder" again, build unis, turn up research again and let's think about what we do with Lego in ~30 turns.

	24-10-2003 00:08									#13
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I'm exhausted too, by the way (World Series games going past midnight every night. Damn Fox and their 8:15 start times!!). I'm barely functioning today.

I don't think we should stop ALL attack plans on Bob, since I think we must regain control over former Spanish lands, particularly those south of Pamplona (Merida, Alamo). Given that, I think our northern forces should land not against GoW, but against ND, to draw off some Ansars and perhaps threaten that city they have north of Toledo (name escapes me, sorry).

Meanwhile, we muster for an attack on the Alamo 2 turns from now. And we pray that RP can hold Pamplona.

Therefore, here are the orders I would give:

North: load all galleys except the northern lookout with troops. Knights first, then pikes/med inf if there is more space. Move any excess mounted forces toward South Stormia for upgrade/transport to Spain. Cover the coast with footsloggers. Move the loaded galleys west towards Bob. Next turn will be the turn of decision - go for GoW, go for ND, or just beeline south to assist RP.

South: load the 4 galleys by O.G. with knights + 1 settler. Move the 2 with move points left toward Bob. Move our southern lookout galley one tile to the east (6), so it's out of range of ND's galleys.

Consolidate all troops that can make it there to Barcelona 4441 (the end of our road). This includes our 10 knights, many assorted footsoldiers, and 4 workers.

Move the units directly north of Barcelona to Barc4.

Fortify our 2 knights by Essibar.

Build orders changes:

-Aqueduct in Dissville
-Uni in Hurricane
-Uni in EotS
-Uni in Tempest
-Market in Tornado
-Galley in O.Gale (currently building horseman)

Cities south of the neck except for our FP city should generally switch over to civilian production.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 24-10-2003 at 00:17

	24-10-2003 00:27									#14
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I'm on the same page as Arrian, with a few exceptions and further thoughts:

* I am not yet convinced we should not attack GoW. I firmly believe that substantially all of of ND and GoW's offensive forces are committed in the south. Landing 16 units at the mountain SE of YK provides an excellent stick to balance the carrot of our attempted bribe.

* Even if the northern forces do nothing more than incent GoW towards a deal with us, they can be reloaded and sent south for an attack across the eastern ND hills.

* ABSOLUTELY AGREE re consolidating southern forces at Barc4441.

* Agree re keeping the 2 Knights at Essigbar fortified and on sentry duty.

* Knights from our south should be transhipped to Bob as quickly as possible... don;t wait to amass Galleys.

* I disagree with Arrian's build orders for universities. For the moment, we should stay focused on things military.

Lastly: We should consider a true gang bang on ND... what if we were to orchestrate a worldwide alliance against them?

	24-10-2003 01:52									#15
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Regarding city build orders - that needs team-wide debate, and for now we can leave those cities building units and change them next turn if need be. As things stand right now, I count Sir Ralph and I in favor of switching to civilian production, and Theseus against. Others, please chime in.

Regarding the north: the reason I said load the galleys and move them due west is so that next turn we have the option of moving them north to land on GoW, or south. It buys us time to decide. I think we should land against ND, while working on buying off GoW.

-Arrian

	24-10-2003 02:01									#16
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I believe the northern Galleys will be finishing assembling at Beta this turn... I'd rather keep them all together, there, than send them west piecemeal. Next rurn we can figure out where to send them. (Thinking ahead, as a threat during negotiation, we may want to show GoW a screenshot of the Galleys once they are in place next to the YK mountain).

What time are you going home? I have a cocktail party at 6:30pm, and probably won't be home and able to play the save until around 8:30pm. Do you want to play it?

	24-10-2003 02:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Regarding city build orders - that needs team-wide debate, and for now we can leave those cities building units and change them next turn if need be. As things stand right now, I count Sir Ralph and I in favor of switching to civilian production, and Theseus against. Others, please chime in. -Arrian

Good point in terms of keeping our options open, in terms of both what to build and where to land.
How GoW react to diplomacy is also likely to affect what to do about building.

If people think it's a good idea I'd like to start pushing MZ for his initial reaction to Theseus' message... We could really do with knowing where things stand sooner rather than later.

	24-10-2003 02:31									#18
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Theseus,

If you can play it, I'd appreciate it. I will do it I must, but as I mentioned I'm totally exhausted and I'd just rather not deal with it.

-Arrian

p.s. Woah, I just noticed... are we way over the 24 hour limit? Shite.

	24-10-2003 03:06									#19
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I'll play it, and send our apologies.

I'll post when I am about to play... prolly around 8pm EST or a little later.

	24-10-2003 06:18									#20
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OK, I am home a little later than I thought, but I'm now going to go ahead with the turn. I will take my time with it (like last turn), and try to post what is going on as I go, providing opportunities for commentary.

I'll try to get screenies / reporting up as well.

Also, if I can get to it before sleep, I'm gonna jazz things up diplomatically.

	24-10-2003 06:30									#21
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Before I start, here is what I believe:

* ND and GoW have had BAD production from the start... even though they are each in their GAs, the bulk of their forces are committed to the southern conflict. My gut tells me ND has 10+ AWs in the local theatre, and GoW a bit less.

* Lego is ON Bob... whether to assist in the protection of GoW, or to participate in a GoWian backstab of ND, this must be a meaningful force... figure Knights, at least 5 or 6, somewhere along the GoW/ND border and moving towards the east with an ROP.

* Vox is not on Bob... yet. Expect something somewhere to contribute... maybe the GoW island?

* Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but the RP stack at Alamo8 should be able to see Alamo1... where's the ND stack? I'll tell you where... Merida and Essigbar.

* Our northern forces need the flexibility to go after GoW or ND, depending on diplo.

Here I go...

	24-10-2003 06:31									#22
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Also, I'm going to shoot a quick PM to Arenlos first... see the RP diplo thread.

	24-10-2003 07:04									#23
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Guys, I know a bunch of you are on-line and on 'poly... I'm sending out the PMs and playing the turn in about 15 minutes.

	24-10-2003 07:24									#24
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Finally playing the turn.

Spain offers WM... I don;t remember this going on at all, but it makes sense, so I offer our WM back and accept.

	24-10-2003 09:36									#25
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All,

I am just doing the turn and getting it off. So be it.

T

	24-10-2003 19:05									#26
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Sorry, didn't finish last night... had to sleep. I'm playing from the office via GoToMyPC...

WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HOUSTON. There are only 4 Galleys in the northern sea. I don't know what happened. I've loaded 6 K onto 3 of the 4 Galleys by Beta.

I loaded 8 K onto the Galleys near OG, and was able to send 2 back towards Sirocco.

At Barc4441, we have 12 K, 5 MedInf, 5 Pike, 1 Cat, and 4 Workers.

I changed all of those Pike builds to Knights or Galleys.

GoW stack at Alamo6 consists of 5 Riders and 8 Cats.

Sorry, no screenshots.

	24-10-2003 19:27									#27
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OOPS, sorry, didn't post these notes... re-read the previous post AFTER reading this:

PRODUCTION:

EotS: Horse, change to Pike.
Cyclone: Warrior, change to Pike.
D-ville: Warrior, change to Pike.
Tornado: WC, change to Pike.
Arashi: Knight, change to Pike.
Sandstorm: Settler, change to Pike.
HH: Spear, change to Pike.
Beta: Spear, change to Pike.
Whirlwind: WC, change to Pike.
Blizzard: Horse, change to Pike.

Note: All those Pikes are placeholders while figure out what we actually want to build. This is REALLY important... I am not good at economy and short-builds and such (well, I'm decent, but some of the team are MASTERS... HELP??!!).

UNIT MOVES
* Pike, MedInf and Cat that had last turn landed in Sirocco are moved to Barc4.
* Southern units except 2 are moved to Fort Liberation at Barc4441. FLib now has 5 Pike, 1 Cat, 5 MedInf, and 12 Knights.
* 2 Knights at Essigbar9 fortify.
* Pike at Toledo9 fortifies. Worker there roads.
* WC at OG77 unloads.
* Workers - Misc

	24-10-2003 21:24									#28
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Theseus, if I'd realized it was going to be that difficult for you to play the save, like I said, I would have done it.

-Arrian

	25-10-2003 00:45									#29
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More importantly... what happened to our northern Galleys???!!!

	25-10-2003 01:26									#30
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You know, I didn't look too carefully, but how many were we supposed to have? Are you sure some aren't in a city and maybe got accidently fortified there so you wouldn't notice them unless you looked inside?

To be honest, I lost track of how many we had, so when I looked at the save, I didn't notice anything was amiss.

-Arrian