23-10-2003 00:57									#1
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What up with dat, y0?

Seriously - if Carthage and Rome had just kept away from each other, the world might have had a glorious white reign all across North Africa. Does this make sense?

I want to visit Hammammbranannana's tomb. I love you, discovery channel

	23-10-2003 01:13									#2
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I'll see where this goes before I close it.

	23-10-2003 01:14									#3
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I want to visit Yama-hama Mama's Cat House.

	23-10-2003 01:17									#4
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This is going to sound like an exam question but

Glorious white reign

define?

	23-10-2003 01:19									#5
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If the Romans hadn't destroyed Carthage, the Arabs or the Berbers surely would have.

	23-10-2003 01:23									#6
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and if the eunuchs hadn't had their schlongs cut off, they might not have destroyed china's vast seagoing fleet... and we'd be speaking asian here in america.

	23-10-2003 01:24									#7
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It may have lengthened Romes influence but a downfall would have eventually happened.

	23-10-2003 01:28									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If the Romans hadn't destroyed Carthage, the Arabs or the Berbers surely would have.

wh? How do you know

	23-10-2003 01:30									#9
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'cause they're not asian.

	23-10-2003 01:32									#10
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the chinese, koreans, and japanese are undefeated against the arabs and berbers... euros aren't.

	23-10-2003 01:32									#11
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What about the Moors?

	23-10-2003 01:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed the chinese, koreans, and japanese are undefeated against the arabs and berbers...

How are their records against the Euros/Americans?

	23-10-2003 01:39									#13
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well, let's see...

2 losses (china-opium wars until now, but that's looking shaky; japan-ww2, only to dominate economically...)
2 wins (vietnam, eventually; korea, sorta)

let's do it like the world series. best of seven?

	23-10-2003 01:49									#14
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no

	23-10-2003 01:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed well, let's see... 2 losses (china-opium wars until now, but that's looking shaky; japan-ww2, only to dominate economically...) 2 wins (vietnam, eventually; korea, sorta) let's do it like the world series. best of seven?

No fair - you said Koreans, Chinese and Japanese. If youre going to throw in the Viet Namese, you need to also include the conquest by the French! Though you can also include beating the French in '54.

How about Japanese victory over Russia in 1905? But then also Russian victory at Khalkin Gol (sp?) in 1939. And how about the Boxer Rebellion?

	23-10-2003 01:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed the chinese, koreans, and japanese are undefeated against the arabs and berbers... euros aren't.

Only one clash though - somewhere in central asia under the Tang right? And China didnt exactly exploit the victory.

	23-10-2003 02:00									#17
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China, and American politicians, were more of an obstacle than the NVA.

	23-10-2003 02:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed and if the eunuchs hadn't had their schlongs cut off, they might not have destroyed china's vast seagoing fleet... and we'd be speaking asian here in america.

You kind of got that backwards. Eunuchs were pro treasure fleet. Their rivals ordered the destruction of the treasure fleet.

	23-10-2003 02:09									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed the chinese, koreans, and japanese are undefeated against the arabs and berbers... euros aren't.

But Carthies werent Euro's = they were Phoenicians, Semites from the Levant - close relatives of Ancient Hebrews (though pagans - like the Canaanites)
You dont want to review the record of THAT group against Arabs, do you?

	23-10-2003 02:15									#20
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sure

	23-10-2003 02:23									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka sure

er. 1948. Win. 1956 win (lost diplomatically) 1967 - win
1973 - arguably a win 1982 - military win, political defeat (eventually) 2001 - 2003 - Stalemate so far Id say.


If we identify the Berbers with Arabs (arguable) the Carthies with the descendants of the Hebrews, Id say you have an argument for the Carthies taking every Berber area they have the logistical ability to reach.

(of course the 7th cent arabs did A HELLUVA LOT better than the 20thc Arabs - probably because the nature of warfare was different, among other reasons - which makes all this reading backwards kinda silly, no?)

	23-10-2003 02:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by pchang You kind of got that backwards. Eunuchs were pro treasure fleet. Their rivals ordered the destruction of the treasure fleet.

The admiral was a eunuch though, and he was the one who got bored with the whole exploration thing and ordered the fleet back home. If he had pressed onward he might have made it around the Cape and on to Europe. Since the expedition was supposed to be a giant shopping spree, and since what he brought home evidently completely underwhelmed the Imperial court then it stands to reason that he is also to blame for China's ennui regarding future expeditions. If he had brought back something exciting, then China might have pressed on to become a true global power.

	23-10-2003 02:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The admiral was a eunuch though, and he was the one who got bored with the whole exploration thing and ordered the fleet back home. If he had pressed onward he might have made it around the Cape and on to Europe. Since the expedition was supposed to be a giant shopping spree, and since what he brought home evidently completely underwhelmed the Imperial court then it stands to reason that he is also to blame for China's ennui regarding future expeditions. If he had brought back something exciting, then China might have pressed on to become a true global power.

ISTR the need to put resources into defending the northern frontier had something to do with it.

and really what reason did he have to think that going further would lead to anything more interesting than what he had found in east africa - did China have rumours of the wealth of Portugal?

	23-10-2003 07:34									#24
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you're welcome.

	23-10-2003 07:35									#25
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I heard that Cleopatera was white and flew in gliders. So we are the true great people.

	23-10-2003 07:36									#27
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What does all this have to do with Canada's plan for world domination??

	23-10-2003 08:40									#28
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I heard that Cleopatera was white and flew in gliders. So we are the true great people.

Cleopatra was a descendant of one of Alexander's generals, Ptolyme, so she was technically ethnically Greek, though I would guess that after more than 300 years on the throne the Greek part of the genome in her household should have worn pretty thin. That is, unless the Ptolemys insisted on inbreeding.

	23-10-2003 08:49									#29
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not so hard to beleive. They hadgreek settlements. Maybe theyjust married in the community...

	23-10-2003 08:49									#30
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