25-10-2003 02:47									#61
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Driving Standards Agency?

	25-10-2003 02:49									#62
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Quick French question. Is this how you say "I don't have a pen":

Je ne avoir un stylo pas

?

	25-10-2003 02:51									#63
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quote: Originally posted by axi The comrades in France are enjoying what we here in Greece are only hoping for: a radical revolutionary pole inside the left, which has prevailed over the bankrupt reformist parties of the parliamentary left.

Actually I think that, as Spiffor claimed, people can no longer identify with the major parties and are showing their frustration by voting for extremes, on both sides. That result is maybe not so much a success of the far edges but a failure of the main parties.

	25-10-2003 03:01									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Quick French question. Is this how you say "I don't have a pen"

Je n'ai pas de stylo

or

Je n'ai pas de crayon

(I always confuse "pen" and "pencil"; "Crayon" is the one that doesn't use ink)

	25-10-2003 03:02									#65
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Actually I think that, as Spiffor claimed, people can no longer identify with the major parties and are showing their frustration by voting for extremes, on both sides. That result is maybe not so much a success of the far edges but a failure of the main parties.

Absolutely. Many people vote on the extremes not because they really want a revolution, nor even because they want collectivization, but because they think the main parties are corrupt incapables, who don't care for the well being of the common man.

	25-10-2003 03:03									#66
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Hmm...Our French teacher says that to say "dont" would be "ne verb pas". Example:

"Vous ne cherchez pas" - You don't look. Or some such.

	25-10-2003 03:13									#67
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It's like your teacher says.

Je n'ai pas de stylo (stylo is pen Spiffor)

You wrote:

Je ne avoir un stylo pas

Your two mistakes are:
1) put the verb in the right clause (heh now my own english vocabulary is too poor to describe it)
Not "Avoir" but "ai"

2) And you should have put the "pas" after the verb just like your teacher said

	25-10-2003 03:14									#68
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That's right, but there is a contraction with two vowels being next to each other. Je n'ai pas...

	25-10-2003 03:15									#69
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Exactly. And in the sentence above, it should be:
"je ne avoir pas" (very crudely, to the point is incorrect).
"Avoir" in the first Person singular is "ai". That would give "Je ne ai pas" (still too crude to be good).
"ne" removes the mute E at the end of the word when followed by a vowel, and replaces it with an apostrophe. Result is:

"Je n'ai pas"

	25-10-2003 03:31									#70
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A little funny offtopic story: when I was giving my first exams in French, I got unbelievably nervous during the oral exams. So nervous in fact that I forgot nearly all the french words I knew!!! No joking.
Not wanting to let the interviewr think that I didn't know any more words in french and in a jerk motion since I was really frustrated I told her:

J'ai oublie mon repertoire de mots!!!

LOL... I was so nervous that not only had I forgotten most of the french words, I had also forgotten the word to describe it:" vocabulaire".

So I invented "repertoire de mots" to decribe it LOL

The result was that my interviwer laughed, I felt even more badly but then she actually encouraged me and everything went OK. She actually gave me a high mark - out of sheer pity and amusement no doubt

	25-10-2003 03:34									#71
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BTW That was in Leondios, Axi

	25-10-2003 04:28									#72
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Je n'ai pas de stylo.

vs.

Je n'ai pas un stylo.



Aussi, un stylo en Anglais est << pen >> et un crayon est << pencil >>

Je suis oublie mes lecons de grammaire francais.

	25-10-2003 05:02									#73
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That would be J'ai oublier mes leçons de grammaire français...

Unless you meant Je suis oublié de mes leçons de grammaire français, but I really doubt that.

	25-10-2003 05:06									#74
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tense

'have forgotten'

J'ai oublier?

	25-10-2003 05:20									#75
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Oui (Paiktis just used it too)

	25-10-2003 05:35									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi tense 'have forgotten' J'ai oublier?

Almost. J'ai oublié

For verbs ending with "er", the composite past ends with "é".

As for the difference between "Je n'ai pas de stylo" and "Je n'ai pas un stylo", it comes from the fact that the English word "a" is hard to translate. The French "un" emphasizes most often on the quantity. More often than not, you should use "un" where you'd une "one" in an English sentence.

In this precise case, the amount on pens you don't have is indefinite, so "de". If you wanted to emphasize that you didn't even have one pen, then you could say "Je n'ai même pas un stylo"

	25-10-2003 05:40									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Je n'ai pas de stylo. vs. Je n'ai pas un stylo. Aussi, un stylo en Anglais est << pen >> et un crayon est << pencil >> Je suis oublie mes lecons de grammaire francais.

"un" means more literally "one" in french. So the second statement would be "I don't have one pen," which means you could have zero or you could have two, or three for that matter. "de" means "any" (among other things) so the first one means "I don't have any pens." Actually, shouldn't it be "Je n'ai pas de stylos"?

	25-10-2003 05:42									#78
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quote: Le Pen himself has been convicted on a number of occations for things like holocaust denial (something that's illegal in france but he wants it to be legal), antisemitism and for making jokes about the concentration camps.

Holocaust denial is illegal in France?! That's scary. I don't agree with holocaust deniers (I think they're morons), but I still think that their freedom of expression should be protected.

	25-10-2003 05:45									#79
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Holocaust denial is illegal in France?! That's scary. I don't agree with holocaust deniers (I think they're morons), but I still think that their freedom of expression should be protected.

While we value freedom of expression quite much, we are not as maximalist about it as the US. Actually, many European countries limit freedom of speech to a limited extent. These interdictions have mostly to do with nazi propaganda.

Even today, I'm not sure a Frenchman can access to Mein Kampf without having full access at research libraries.

	25-10-2003 05:53									#80
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Je vous comprends.

C'est la mode de Passe Compose.

Ou pourrais-je trouver une liste des verbes francais irreguliers?

Aussi, je vais une clavier avec les accents francais.

Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 25-10-2003 at 06:01

	25-10-2003 05:56									#81
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quote: While we value freedom of expression quite much, we are not as maximalist about it as the US. Actually, many European countries limit freedom of speech to a limited extent. These interdictions have mostly to do with nazi propaganda. Even today, I'm not sure a Frenchman can access to Mein Kampf without having full access at research libraries.

That's really scary. People say the Patriot act is all undemocratic and stuff, but can you imagine the uproar if we tried to explicitly ban freedom of expression over here?

	25-10-2003 06:06									#82
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Ben Kenobi:
I'm sorry, I tried to google for it, but I couldn't find a list. There is a reason to that: we have a great many tenses, which are combined with 6 different subjects. As a result, each irregular verb has many different conjugations, and it is nearly impossible to list them all at one glance (unlike English)

But it seems this site is somehow good, as it gives the rules for the complicated "3rd group verbs".

Gah, it reminds me of basic school and junior high How I hated grammar.

Edit: forgot to give the link

Last edited by Spiffor on 25-10-2003 at 06:15

	25-10-2003 06:14									#83
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Skywalker:
It is not scary, it is different. And actually, while I am for an absolute freedom of thought, I think freedom of speech shouldn't be absolute: unlike thought, speech is already an action, and as an action it has the potential to be dangerous.

We had a debate about the pedophile magazine, and everybody agreed it was illegal to give a "how-to" to pedophiles. But even that goes against freedom of speech in the purest meaning.

In France, it is forbidden to call to murder, to call to racial hatred, and to deny nazi war crimes. Recently, it has become illegal to boo the national anthem (this new law is outrageous IMO), and I don't know for how long it is forbidden to burn the flag. It may sometimes happens that books get removed from the shelves, but the very few instances where I have seen that during my lifetime, it was always because of a libel judgement. That's about it.

Needless to say, Le Pen wants to remove the laws against calls to racial hatred, in the name of "freedom of speech". It would be less laughable if he didn't advocate the return of censorship.

	25-10-2003 06:33									#84
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That's really scary. People say the Patriot act is all undemocratic and stuff, but can you imagine the uproar if we tried to explicitly ban freedom of expression over here?

It depends. From 1941 to 1977, it was illegal in the U.S. to advocate the violent overthrow of the government. There wasn't that big of an uproar. Right now it's illegal in many states to engage in speech which might harm a business. Remember the Oprah libel case?

	25-10-2003 07:07									#85
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Merci, Spiffor.

Mon amie et patron futur, elle n'est pas parler le francais. Donc, je veux retrouver ma dernier habileté.

Aujourd'hui un autre amie, que s'appelle Lefevbre, mon patron s'elle appelle "Lefebre."

Ainsi vous pouvez voir qu'elle a besoin d'aide.

	25-10-2003 07:11									#86
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Ben:
Although it shows that you don't speak like a native, you have a very good skill for a non-native. You'll be able to help any French speaker to interact with your new boss now

But if you want to perfect your French, there are indeed many small flaws that would quickly go away if you ever spend a few months in Québec

	25-10-2003 08:19									#87
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Considering the fairly imprssive electoral performance of the FN and the abject failiure of the Establishment parties to deal with the concerns they raise, is anyone really shocked by this article?

	25-10-2003 09:15									#88
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I'm shocked that the people care about the rabidly xenophobic "concerns" they bring up.

	25-10-2003 09:58									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm shocked that the people care about the rabidly xenophobic "concerns" they bring up.

Reality can be jarring at times to people who don't let it affect thier world view.

	25-10-2003 15:07									#90
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Considering the fairly imprssive electoral performance of the FN and the abject failiure of the Establishment parties to deal with the concerns they raise, is anyone really shocked by this article?

Yes. Those who can't read anything from the Guardian without screaming, no matter the article.