24-10-2003 06:22									#1
	New PBEM Game Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hello Everyone!

I'm pretty new to SMAC, been playing for about 1 1/2 months. Been getting used to some of my strategies and I think that I'm ready to take the plunge! I will be playing as the Peacekeepers, standard settings. I'm not sure how we go about getting someone to set up the game and manage the rules. I believe they're referred to as moderators. Anyone interested?

	28-10-2003 02:15									#2
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I'll play as the hive if you like, if we do a random map we may not need a cmn though if you want one we can certainly see if anyone is interested. Would we be useing the map of planet or a random map what type of research? (Blind stinks) also what size are we talking about here?

	28-10-2003 04:25									#3
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I'm interested in Morgan.

	29-10-2003 02:51									#4
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I can prolly set the game up for y'all

G.

	29-10-2003 03:02									#5
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I guess one more wouldn't hurt.

I could play as the University, assuming directed research, transcend difficulty and the 5.0 (XP) patch.

	29-10-2003 14:15									#6
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ill take gaians and i think it might be interesting to wait for another 2 players. i;v never done a 7 humans games- might be slow, but will surly harder and interesting. what do you say?

	29-10-2003 14:28									#7
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i have a friend who will play the spartans.

just need a believer....

	29-10-2003 21:19									#8
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I would be willing to play as Miriam on condition that the stupid rule where you have to declare vendetta against a faction against whom you have done successful, undetected probe actions not be used. I have never played a game in which I did more than one or two probe actions but I hate that rule and I think it would make Miriam kind of suck.
I am not sure if it is a problem but I am using the unpatched version of SMAC, since the patch won't work for me. I don't know if it is possible to have a multiplayer game between players that have the patch and ones that don't. If it's not, sorry to bother you.

	29-10-2003 21:40									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

1) i think it is the most logical also.
2) i think it should work

please evry one post aproobing!

	30-10-2003 06:21									#10
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The problem with the "probe rule" is that in PBEMs it's dealing with a bug.

In a single player game, when you probe a faction - or get probed - the player who got probed gets the message as to what action to take:

do nothing - stern rebuke - declare vendetta

In a PBEM it is the player who conducts the probe who gets that message, and Firaxis programmers have confessed that this is just a sloppy programming bug that never got cleaned up in subsequent releases.

Hence the generally accepted rule in all forums that the prober, who gets this message, always has to select the declare vendetta option against the probee

The victim, after all, can always restore truce, treaty or pact if he/she so wishes

But it is up to the players to select the rules under which they want to play, so voice your opinions

G.

	30-10-2003 06:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by sammy1339 I don't know if it is possible to have a multiplayer game between players that have the patch and ones that don't. If it's not, sorry to bother you.

And, yes, it is possible. the necessity for all players to have the same version is absolute for IP games, but for PBEMs isn't necessary, particularly for ones where the CMN has started it through the scenario set-up

Scenario'd games carry within the .sav files the characteristics of the creator's alpha.txt and game .exe settings (even a mac user or linux user can play alongside other PC users) and I'd set this one up thru the scenario editor set-up, so it shouldn't be a problem

G.

	30-10-2003 07:10									#12
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well then i guess will have to declare vendetta on probe...

any way spartans name is shaiko and mail: sr_rp@hotmail.com

my mail- martin_t@netvision.net.il

we're ready to begin whenever allthe others are

	30-10-2003 20:09									#13
	Got spare money?

I'm all set. E-mail is kylebenanderson@hotmail.com

I'm comfortable with the probe rule on, since if the prober doesn't want to be at war they can offer peace at the end of the their turn, debate it in e-mail, and it can be accepted at the probee's turn start.

Does the "nothing, rebuke, vendetta" message appear to the prober even if the probe goes undetected?

	30-10-2003 20:32									#14
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Correct. The message is given for everything except
simple infiltration.

(And I've always had trouble with that even in single-player games versus the AI. Surely the essence of a successful probe is that it should be undetected, unless framing someone else (and that's another thing, when you do frame someone else, the victim of the probe always seems to declare vendetta against you as does the someone else)

Just sloppy programming, and too much trouble to correct after its release.

(I wonder if EA/Firaxis would ever release its code like Activision did yesterday for CtP2? I'm not holding my breath)

G.

	30-10-2003 20:45									#15
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So we have so far:

Players:

PeaceKeepers, played by Jerh9e1k5
Hive .................................dacole
Morgan.............................Fosse
University.........................Minute Mirage
Gaians..............................t_ras
Believers..........................sammy1339 (with Probe warning rule disabled)
Sparta.............................Friend of t_ras (will he/she be joining 'Poly? In any case, I'll need an e-mail addy for sending the password, etc)

Settings:

I suggest with 7 humans a Huge map, 50% to 70% water (like the default Planet map and also earth itself), average everything, Transcend level, with the following game settings:



and with the following rules to govern in-game play:

*********************************************

> Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden. If a reload is necessary because of a game crash etc., an explanation should be posted to the turn administration thread.

> Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden. So is airdropping from outside a base/airbase, or after having moved (except on a magtube) using the same method. Using the 'i' key when you want an airdrop means you will automatically comply with these restrictions.

> Inserting Stockpile Energy into the build queue after a military unit is allowed.

> If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, they are not allowed to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction in the same turn, causing a change in diplomatic status or the transfer of energy or knowledge.

> If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you can choose any option that is displayed in the dialog box that appears afterwards.

> Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at any time

> Communications only allowed between factions that have obtained each others' commlink frequencies in-game. (the embedded alpha.txt will reflect this)

> Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line per turn. (no flip-flop within turn - eg to green to capture a mindworm then back again to the original setting!!)

> Psi units cannot be assigned multiple point patrol routes (avoid instant demon boil bug!)

> Whenever the planetary council is called, the caller should post a notification to the thread, including vote totals (if applicable) and who has already voted for what. The other players should post how they vote.

> You cannot use the "Demand Withdrawal" feature to get another player's units out of your territory (the AI essentially makes the response on your behalf)

> You cannot accept a proffered bribe (which is done by the AI again) during Planetary Governor elections

*********************************************

Anything else?

Googlie

	30-10-2003 22:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Anything else?

My free tech choice is the same as in the last game you set up (7-up).

	31-10-2003 02:32									#17
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1) friend of t_ras is shaiko and his registred
2)i'd rader have spoils of war. it makes it much nore worthie to fight for the cities and if one cant run tou the others in thec without building army and echonomics, couse he'll eventualy loose it. it make sthe game more balanced.

	31-10-2003 23:48									#18
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OK, well, I didn't know how the probe rule worked. The way I see it it shouldn't really matter in a seven player game if you probe somebody and decide they didn't care because if someone sees you probing him he probably is going to declare war on you anyway and human players are not going to look at reputation. But I don't mind having the rule either way.
But just out of curiosity I would like to ask you: why wouldn't you be allowed to insert stockpile energy into the build queue after a military unit?

	01-11-2003 00:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by sammy1339 OK, well, I didn't know how the probe rule worked. The way I see it it shouldn't really matter in a seven player game if you probe somebody and decide they didn't care because if someone sees you probing him he probably is going to declare war on you anyway and human players are not going to look at reputation. But I don't mind having the rule either way.

The problem is seeing someone probing - AFAIK, and I haven't played much PBEM, there's no way to really know if someone has probed you.

quote: Originally posted by sammy1339 But just out of curiosity I would like to ask you: why wouldn't you be allowed to insert stockpile energy into the build queue after a military unit?

Do you know of the stockpile energy bug? Here's one thread that explains it.

	01-11-2003 00:12									#20
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OK. Got it. Good.

You guys can put the probe rule back then. That kinda stinks, though.
Although - why not just have a rule forcing the player doing the probe action to tell the guy he probed about it? Either way the "frame another faction" option is no good, and this way it doesn't result in the loss of one turn of commerce if the faction you probe decides to keep the treaty or pact intact. Just a thought.

Last edited by sammy1339 on 01-11-2003 at 00:19

	01-11-2003 09:47									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wow, I just checked this post for the first time in about 2 weeks, I thought that it had become lost in the depths of the forums... Glad to hear that we've got a game going! So my email is xxxxxjeremiahtkane@hotmail.comxxxxxx (just remove x's) and I'll play the peacekeepers. Looking forward to playing everyone!

	02-11-2003 04:23									#22
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yep, lest begin!!!!!!!!

	07-11-2003 04:48									#24
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Hey- Everybody awake? I still haven't received an e-mail from you guys :-(.

	07-11-2003 18:40									#25
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PMed googlie....

	08-11-2003 07:14									#26
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I'll set it up - and assume that as the CyCon aren't in this game that spoils of waron is agreed

And I think that the suggested solution to the Probe bug would work

............... The prober must advise the probee that he has had a covert action against him, and allow the victimized party to make the decision whether to ignore, sternly warn or take more serious action ..............

I like this, in that it gives even more diplomatic choices (eg Hmm, I see. Well then, pay me 100 credits next turn or I shall declare vendetta, etc etc)

But deciding on this rukle amendment needn't hold up the game, so I'll get working on it

G.

	08-11-2003 16:20									#27
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sounds grate!

	08-11-2003 21:10									#28
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sammy1339:

I need you to swend me an e-mail (or give your e-mail affy here)

send to (without the xxx's):

xxxgooglie@canada.comxxx

tks

G.

	10-11-2003 08:41									#29
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The game has started. The turn reporting thread is here

Note that I still need sammy1339's e-mail address (otherwise the game will stall with General Shaiko having nowhere to send the turn)

Good luck all

Googlie

Hmm - I also need dacole's e-mail addy (DC, I thought I had it, but I guess not)

Last edited by Googlie on 10-11-2003 at 09:04

	12-11-2003 23:29									#30
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wow had forgotten about this as well heh googilies email reminded me of it! So there is no way in a pbem to tell the difference between a sucessful or unsucessful probe action? Odd, in game if your probe is caught they saw you if not they didn't right? Anyway could we use this to check for success? If the probe returns to one of your bases probe was unsuccesful if its caught you have to tell the other player about it. Also what ever rule we decide on I would apply it only to treatys and pacts not truces (since this is the default setting) that way a faction that you have met but not been officialy friendly with is still open for probeing. Just some ideas!