24-10-2003 23:11									#1
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Mayans, Portuguese and Sumerians. There are unit and leader images included.

See:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ew_6076654.html

Here are the vital statistics:

Mayans:
Traits : Agr and Ind
UU: Javelin Thrower 2/2/1 cost 30
UU has a 1 in 3 chance to turn a defeated unit into a worker (enslave).

Portuguese:
Traits : Exp and Sea
UU: Carrack 2/2/4 cost 40

Sumerians:
Traits : Agr and Sci
UU: Enkidu Warrior 1/2/1 cost 10

Last edited by Slax on 27-10-2003 at 21:46

	25-10-2003 00:20									#2
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Thanks for the info !
I updated my comprehensive list. Looks like the Mayans can be really kickass. Does "enslave" work on Barbarians ?

	25-10-2003 01:11									#3
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Looking good...

Thanks for the link.

	25-10-2003 01:28									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor ... Does "enslave" work on Barbarians ?

My guess would be 'no', since they have no nationality.

	25-10-2003 01:41									#5
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Ah, so it's the Maya who get to be Ag/Ind. I definitely want to see what they can do with the early game.

-Arrian

	25-10-2003 02:34									#6
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I can understand the Mayans being Agricultural but not so much the Industrious.

I guess they did build pyramids though and that took some work.

	25-10-2003 12:25									#7
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quote: UU: Enkidu Warrior 1/2/1 cost 10

So Sumerians get spearman at half-price ...

Q : Do they need Bronze-Working to build them ?

Q : Do they upgrade like regular spearman ?


Their traits are nice too. Sci and Agr. makes for an early game of population explosion and fast research.


I think I just might have found my favorite civ of those offered in the expansion pack.

	25-10-2003 14:38									#8
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quote: Originally posted by KenderBane Q : Do they need Bronze-Working to build them ?

No, the Enkidu warrior replaces the warrior

quote: Q : Do they upgrade like regular spearman ?

I'd rather think they upgrade like warriors. Besides, the Sumerian player can't build spearmen.

	25-10-2003 17:23									#9
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Why have a 2/2/1 Javelineer when the Babylonians have a 2/2/1 bowman already? Given that the Javelineer can enslave, and the Maya's traits are better than Babylon's, why play Babs?

	25-10-2003 17:31									#10
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan Given that the Javelineer can enslave, and the Maya's traits are better than Babylon's, why play Babs?

Babylon has excellent traits if you go for a culture victory. And it's a pretty good combo on its own right, as you will save humongous amounts of shields. besides, don't forget industrious has been toned down, as it now quickens public works ony by 50%, rather than 100%

Besides, Babylonian bowmen are 10 shields cheaper than Mayan Javelineers, and as such they fulfill the function both of Archers and Spearmen, for the same cost. The Javelineers have a high cost for Bronze Age units, so you'll have trouble waging an archer rush with them, whereas the Bowmen are the best weapon for an archer rush.

So, the Babylonians won't suck as much as it seems, IMHO.

	25-10-2003 17:44									#11
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Since the Babs haven't really changed I can't see as they could be any worse than they were before. Since the beginning, they've been the easiest to do a cultural victory with.

	26-10-2003 17:07									#12
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I think the Sumerians have really nice traits, especially with Scientific GLs, and the spearmen for 10 sheilds is impressive. They could be a very powerful builder civ. The only problem will be the early GA which will be kinda hard to avoid without being able to build spearmen.

In terms of Industrious not being as good any more. Does anyone know if Ind workers will take longer or if non-Ind workers will work quicker?

	26-10-2003 18:31									#13
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Industrious workers now work 50% faster instead of 100% faster

	26-10-2003 19:35									#14
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cheers, so is it rounded up or down? I guess it's rounded up to take an extra turn..... like how roads currently take 2 turns rather than 1.5 for an Ind worker

3 turn irrigation?
2 turn roads?
5 turn mining?
8 turn forest clearing?

How long will 2 Ind workers take to mine a single tile? Can it really be 3 turns just like 2 non Ind workers?

How long will it take for 2 Ind workers to irrigate a tile? 2 turns? just like 2 non Ind workers?

Perhaps there will be alot more micromanaging of workers required.

	27-10-2003 03:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Industrious workers now work 50% faster instead of 100% faster

I'm not sure where this figure came from.... all I ever said in the chat was that "there was a change to slightly lower the industrial workers speed"

To clear this up, in fact the reduction isn't to 50%, but rather to 66%. This means

Mine plains - 4 turns Ind/6 turns non Ind
Irrigation - 3 turns Ind/4 turns non Ind
Road plains - 2 turns Ind/3 turns non Ind
Mine hill - 8 turns Ind/12 turns non Ind
Road hill - 4 turns Ind/6 turns non Ind

Forest clearing...well you will have to wait and see for that one

	27-10-2003 04:03									#16
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oops
Thanks for the correction Merepatra

	27-10-2003 13:13									#17
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oops, i just posted this in another thread by a mistake...

quote: Mayans: Traits : Agr and Ind UU: Javelin Thrower 2/2/1 cost 30

these seem to be gods! it's an expensive bowman (imho not a very useful unit because neither special offense not special defense), but with enslavement ability! which means early free workers if you dare to rush.
the traits are probably one of the most powerful combinations (i don't know how good industrial pays out now). i can imagine that this is a killer AI if the computer uses the javelin thrower enough!

quote: Portuguese: Traits : Exp and Sea UU: Carrack 2/2/4 cost 40

as someone stated earlier: getting ocean travel with astronomy (so 2-6 techs earlier which means 10-30 turns earlier) means domination to communications. good trading and beeing fortunate that the other continent is rich but behind in techs can be great! also the portuguese have a great advantage when picking out the best islands and unpopulated islands for conquest.

quote: Sumerians: Traits : Agr and Sci UU: Enkidu Warrior 1/2/1 cost 10

now this is basicly a very cheap spearman. great for sending off with your settlers (no need to research bronze working) and great with raging barbarians. traits: one of the strongest and one of the weakest, or differently said: one of the best ancient traits (other one expansionist) and one of the best industrial/modern traits (other one commercial).

	27-10-2003 18:15									#18
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You know, I'm not usually one to complain about the design choices, but here goes....

How is it that the Sumerians, supposed inventors of the wheel, do not start with The Wheel as one of their techs!?!?! Seems a tad bit silly to me. Granted, given the UU they've been given it would make them a bit overpowering, but couldn't the designers have found some compromise to make it possible for them to start with The Wheel?

Oh, well. I always say to be go crack open the editor if you don't like it, but I guess I'll just leave them alone and see how it plays out.

	27-10-2003 18:21									#19
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as you said: they INVENTED the wheel... they didn't have it from beginning on


btw, i correct my post from before: mayans start with bronze working anyway... a kind of useless tech for them

	27-10-2003 18:27									#20
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Ha ha.

The point is, they were the civilization that had it first. In C3C, they'll have to either research it or trade for it.

	27-10-2003 18:37									#21
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In Conquests, the Japanese will always be the Civ that has the wheel first
(That's especially strange since the wheel was forbidden for a very long time in Japan )

	27-10-2003 18:40									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie Ha ha. The point is, they were the civilization that had it first. In C3C, they'll have to either research it or trade for it.

Course if they trade for it then wipe out that civ before it meets anyone, who's to say they can't "claim" they invented it anyway?

Maybe that's what really happened.

	27-10-2003 20:39									#23
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It would probably be good idea to update the original post with the fact that the Mayan Javelineer has the Enslavement ability. Otherwise people might be misled into the thinking that the Mayans get a bad Bowmen as their UU.

quote: They are strong on both offense and on the defense and possess the ability to "enslave" other units. Additionally, when the javelin thrower wins a battle, there is a one-in-three chance that the defeated unit will be enslaved and immediately turned into a worker, which then becomes the property of the Mayan player.

This gives everyone an idea of what Enslavement is all about. Can anyone tell me why the second sentence starts with "Additionally..."?


Dominae

	27-10-2003 21:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae It would probably be good idea to update the original post with the fact that the Mayan Javelineer has the Enslavement ability. Otherwise people might be mislead into the thinking that the Mayans get a bad Bowmen as their UU.

Done!

	27-10-2003 21:51									#25
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Any combat unit can enslave a non-combat unit. Additionally........

	27-10-2003 21:51									#26
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The Mayans look very good for an early game rush.