27-11-2003 01:58									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From OPD

quote: Because you continually refer to us as "those guys" Showing a serious lack of respect, which although may appear small the cumilative effect of all the times you do it is easily justification enough for war. But seriously though not really.... were doing the whole peaceful thing. I just found your appology for not sending maths a bit un-necessary

My reply:

quote: quote: Because you continually refer to us as "those guys" Showing a serious lack of respect, which although may appear small the cumilative effect of all the times you do it is easily justification enough for war. As I recall, it was you who asked us to call you something other than "MAST," so you only have yourself to blame. quote: But seriously though not really.... were doing the whole peaceful thing. I just found your appology for not sending maths a bit un-necessary I didn't just want You Guys to open the turn and find no math without an explanation. Figured a brief apology was in order while I was at it. BTW, next time I recommend a "j/k" at the end of the message. Saves some trouble and you won't have to pay my hospital bills for heart attack.

	27-11-2003 02:04									#32
	Put an end to popups!

Well that's better then. So the deal is still in effect and we can continue thinking of them as good trading partners.

	27-11-2003 05:52									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

hew: Though, it would have been a kind of fruitless war for them anyway They don't even know where we are

	28-11-2003 23:57									#34
	Remove this text

Included in the 1450 MAST e-mail:

quote: Please don't move onto any roads that are outside our territory this turn as we have a unit coming through next turn. Thank you -Kloreep

	15-12-2003 02:59									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Unofficial chat with Arnelos of MAST last night - I thought that his "LL diplomacy" thread in the public forum which mentioned that LL was doing MM next shouldn't necessarily be seen by the other teams (especially Sunshine)

quote: [Sharpe] Hi Arnelos, does the no_comment refer to your LL diplomacy thread in the public PTWDG2 forum btw? [Arnelos_no_comment] did I post that publicly? [Sharpe] yes [Arnelos_no_comment] going to change it [Arnelos_no_comment] oh well [Arnelos_no_comment] nothing lost [Sharpe] no, LL told us too that they were going for MM [Arnelos_no_comment] right [Arnelos_no_comment] like I said, nothing los [Arnelos_no_comment] t [Sharpe] wonder what Sunshine will think of it though [Arnelos_no_comment] god I hate the t key on this stupid keyboard!!!!! [Arnelos_no_comment] I edited it out and practically no-one is online [Arnelos_no_comment] you're probably the only one who even noticed [Arnelos_no_comment] that went up about 10 min. ago [Sharpe] hopefully [Sharpe] I read it and thought that it was probably in the wrong forum [Arnelos_no_comment] it was [Sharpe] Tabemono send you 48 gold and accepted CoL btw [Sharpe] what are you guys doing next in tech? [Arnelos_no_comment] not a clue [Sharpe] same here in 3 or 4 turns [Arnelos_no_comment] I'm sure bongo, vulture, and OPD have been discussing it, though [Sharpe] oh, you not active in MAST ? [Arnelos_no_comment] I'm president of AI in the MZO C3C DG and Consul of the ISDG... so my involvement has gone down, yes [Arnelos_no_comment] I'm active, but I mostly just do diplomatic stuff [Arnelos_no_comment] too busy to really help with domestic affairs anymore [Sharpe] yeah, sounds as though you have a full plate elsewhere [Sharpe] well if MAST can let us know what you are researching next we would appreciate it so as to not overlap once we get Currency done in 3 or 4 turns [Arnelos_no_comment] sure [Sharpe] btw, earlier MAST was getting worried about LL attacking you, is that still the case? [Arnelos_no_comment] quite [Sharpe] yeah, they do appear to be doing a military buildup from our calculations [Arnelos_no_comment] we think they're building warriors for a Legionary upgrade [Sharpe] probably [Sharpe] of note - they took a LOT longer to finish Polytheism than it took Tabemono for Currency [Sharpe] so they probably are building up gold funds too - which also suggests a Legionary upgrade policy [Arnelos_no_comment] yup [Arnelos_no_comment] and this is still PTW, so mass upgrades are comparatively cheap [Sharpe] yeah [Sharpe] of course doesn't mean necessarily that they will attack (yeah unlikely), but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is you that they will attack either [Arnelos_no_comment] we're the most likely since we're by far the closest to them [Arnelos_no_comment] and I doubt we can stop them by ourselves [Sharpe] yeah [Arnelos_no_comment] though we'll certainly try [Sharpe] Tabemono is another possibility of attack [Arnelos_no_comment] they have legionaries and they started with a bonus settler... they're going to be just too powerful if they build the right force [Arnelos_no_comment] you are, but you'll have plenty of advance warning [Arnelos_no_comment] if we stick any units to watch the chokepoint [Arnelos_no_comment] of course, they might also use galleys if they're working on map making [Arnelos_no_comment] we'll need Map Making to build picket galleys of our own [Sharpe] yeah, the galleys is possible to attack Tabemono by stealth possibly OR perhaps to contact the other continent [Arnelos_no_comment] I'm guessing they want them to attack either Tabemono or MAST by sea and not have to fight in the chokepoint [Arnelos_no_comment] that jungle is going to be a killer [Sharpe] yes re jungle [Arnelos_no_comment] they'd probably rather just sail [Arnelos_no_comment] better yet, sailing means they keep our forces seperated [Sharpe] plus there is the element of surprise with attacking by sea [Arnelos_no_comment] we're going to NEED to build a road for mututal support [Arnelos_no_comment] *mutual [Sharpe] already working on it [Sharpe] as you have probably seen [Sharpe] we are puzzled though as to why you and Sunshine are so weak on the powergraph - is that a under the radar strategy? [Arnelos_no_comment] I believe the reason is that both teams are in REX, but I cannot be sure [Arnelos_no_comment] as I said, I haven't looked in a while [Sharpe] maybe, but we are REXing too [Sharpe] hmm, sorry I hope you weren't offended by the "weak" comment - it was just we noticed that LL is nearly equal to MAST and Sunshine combined on the powergraph [Arnelos] no prob [Sharpe] some of us were startled by that [Arnelos] interesting about the powergraph, though [Arnelos] both of our teams need to start preparing our defense against LL, though [Sharpe] yep working on that too [Sharpe] roading would help with defense , but also with trade too [Arnelos] yup [Arnelos] gonna cost a ton, though [Arnelos] LL having that chokepoint is a real problem [Sharpe] yeah [Arnelos] because we wouldn't need to road then [Arnelos] we could just send gallies to help or build harbors for trade [Sharpe] true, re harbors [Arnelos] good thing is... if we build a road, it will be hell if LL tries to send legionaries through the jungle to go cut it [Sharpe] true [Sharpe] I suppose you and Sunshine have an agreement re they get west of that lake while you get east? [Sharpe] assuming that is a lake of course [Arnelos] actually, I don't think we've worked out a border yet [Sharpe] hmm nor us with them yet [Sharpe] well gtg, nice talking with you

	18-12-2003 01:53									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In 1225 the MAST warrior "Dangeresque II" was NE of the wheat.



Today, in 1200, he was S-S of that location.



So, they must have moved through our territory.

I think we should tell them we do not appreciate others entering our territory without permission, regardless of where those units end their turn.

Edit: Whoops, had the images switched around

	18-12-2003 03:24									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Why bother stirring them up? Will it gain us anything to rebuke them? Probably not IMO.

	18-12-2003 19:48									#38
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hmm.

What about doing it in a roleplaying fashion?
'Dangeresque has been slain, the streets are stained with his blood, for he refused to enter into our territory when invited.'

	18-12-2003 20:01									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I would not bother bringing it up for now. He's back out past the chokepoint, so we can keep him out, now. However, we should remember this in case there comes a time when they give us guff about units near their territory, or somesuch. Keep a hold of those incriminating pictures

	19-12-2003 02:24									#40
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Okay, let's keep it quiet for now.

Going to play 1175 soon (I'll be in chat if anyone wants to do it with me). I'm going to ask what MAST is researching in the e-mail; shall I offer Currency as well?

	19-12-2003 03:18									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I included this in the save e-mail to MAST:

quote: We've researched Currency; would you like to trade for it? Also, we'd like to know what you're studying so we can avoid duplicating research. -Kloreep

	23-12-2003 10:34									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I caught Arnelos in the chat room while we were playing the turn, and he told me they're researching Republic. That's why we (we, Sharpe, and Zargon) made the snap decision to go to Lit.

Since he was kind enough to tell us (he just got back in town and on the net and digged around the MAST forum for it at my request), I included this in the save e-mail:

quote: Thanks for telling us what you're researching. We're going for Literature. -Kloreep

	29-12-2003 06:26									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Chatted with OPD upon Arnelos's suggestion that he was the one to talk to on MAST

Kloreep and I decided to reveal that we were 3rd in GNP as that is one of our lower stats and about the excess fur and possible excess spices as MAST has probably seen them both...

quote: Start of #feast buffer: Sun Dec 28 20:15:16 2003 * Now talking in #feast * Sharpe sets mode: +k turkey * opd has joined #feast [opd] hello [Sharpe] Hi [Sharpe] Any idea how long it will take you to get Republic? Tabemono is doing Literature after we finished off Currency * Kloreep has joined #feast [Kloreep] Hi [opd] I'll just check [opd] you ever play online MP? [Sharpe] I used to [Sharpe] in Civ 2 - just once or twice in Civ 3 so far [opd] I started playing the other day.. it's quite cool I think [Sharpe] certainly different than pbem or SP [opd] I might even stop playing these things and just play MP * Sharpe sets mode: +o opd * Sharpe sets mode: +o opd [opd] ATM it's 27 turns till Republic * Sharpe sets mode: +o Kloreep [opd] hopefully that will come down though [opd] we were fourth in GNP previously but we seem to have been surpassed [Sharpe] true, with city growth and shifting or up with pop losses and shifting [Sharpe] does MAST have currency or a deal for currency? [opd] no [opd] all we have is an agreement to get MM from SS [Sharpe] ah [Sharpe] just checking some figures here [opd] we have only just started Rep [Sharpe] k [opd] we'd see no problem is researching something else if you can get to it quicker.... [Sharpe] hmm, well we are doing Literature ATM [Sharpe] so you are currently 5th in GNP? and was mostly 4th until recently? [opd] where are you in the f11 stats? [Sharpe] we keep bouncing all over the place [Sharpe] We are currently 3rd in GNP [opd] yeah you have some nice land up there [Sharpe] hmm, maybe but a lot of it isn't so nice [Sharpe] Would you be interested in Currency + Literature + 2 points (or equivalent gold or split between both) for Republic [opd] yes [opd] I think we could agree to a deal with currency and lit for Rep [Sharpe] sounds good [opd] it would have to be a proper deal though, I mean so that neither side could back out if they got the tech some other way [Sharpe] understandable - with the usual No-Trade agreements tacked on [opd] cool [opd] tech is moving very fast in this game [opd] or perhaps MAST are moving slowly.... [Sharpe] if we gave you the gold for the 2 points before you finished Rep, would you be willing to step up your slider at that point to get Rep faster? [opd] already at 100 [Sharpe] ah i c [opd] BTW do you have any luxuries? [opd] excess [opd] for future reference [Sharpe] we have an excess fur ATM [Sharpe] you? [Kloreep] No way to trade it right now though [opd] no [opd] yeah we have a nice jungle.... [Sharpe] we all have a nice jungle [Kloreep] Also, we will have an excess spice eventually [Kloreep] Not hooked up ATM, but I bet we will by the time we manage a trade connection [opd] ok [Sharpe] We see that you are the first ones on the F7 board with your Pyramid build [Kloreep] Interesting city name [opd] what is it called? [opd] also weren't not really building the pyramids [Sharpe] Whos da man now? I think [Sharpe] ah a stealth wonder? [opd] last time I checked our capital was named after team cakes capital.... [Sharpe] lol [Sharpe] that would be confusing [Sharpe] any other rumblings you hearing on the continent? Sunshine seems quiet these days [opd] yeah were not taking things all that seriously anymore [opd] SS seem ok [opd] LL seem cool aswell [Sharpe] sounds good [opd] the other day I had this idea to rename a unit asylumseeker and march him through LL territory [opd] they probably would find it amusing though [Sharpe] yeah, LL is a mystery re their area aren't they? [opd] they will have a city this side of Perla soon though [Sharpe] oh they finally advancing beyond their chokepoint eh? [opd] so it would seem [opd] so how are tabe these days then. [opd] any plans for world dominatino [Sharpe] not really - just killing off barbs these days [opd] are you going to wait till riders then destroy us all? [Kloreep] No plans for dominatino, but world domination is in the plans, yes [opd] maybe you could leave us out of those if we promise not to build any millitary... [Sharpe] in fact we are holding the world domino championship shortly in Tabemono aren't we? [opd] haha [Sharpe] you don't forsee any war problems with Sunshine or LL? [opd] yeah probably but we'll have to deal with that separately [Sharpe] yeah [Sharpe] the other continent seems to be doing very well in score aren't they? [opd] yeah [opd] it's like 2 GS teams and 1 vox over there [opd] they all have lit [opd] python and cake were always going to be allies [Sharpe] oh really re cake and python? [opd] well it's SR and theseus... [Kloreep] I didn't think Theseus was active on Cake [Kloreep] But Arrian is... [Kloreep] Arrian and Cort Haus seem to be their team from what I've read in the public forum [opd] they likely have good starts and could run away with it in the MA [opd] well thats what I think is likely to be the case [Sharpe] hmm, maybe - though I wonder if they are keeping up with all of us in tech [opd] they have lit and we don't.... [Sharpe] true [opd] if you think GS were impressive in the first game you should have seen what was going to happen if Vox hadn't have attacked [Sharpe] you and Sunshine seem to be coming up with a border (besides that lake of course) [opd] yeah we didn't really agree on that we just built there [Sharpe] hmm GS did quite well as it is [Sharpe] ah and then they followed [opd] GS moan about wasting the GA as we were going to run away with the game if we had a peaceful one [opd] lego only built the pyramids one turn before GS you know.... [Sharpe] true, but I think GS built enough wonders after that [opd] the pyramids was to be the GA trigger wonder though [opd] anyway [opd] what funny about LL and SS is that it's only a matter of time before disagreements between BF and MZ spill over into this game.... heheh [Sharpe] hmm, carry-over from the last game eh? [opd] I don't things so [Kloreep] And there's the ISDG... [Sharpe] out of curiousity , where is that jaguar of yours that was exploring our west? [opd] yes [opd] steve mcqueen [Sharpe] seems we are running into your jaguars everywhere [opd] he's a law to himself really, so don't be alarmed if he starts pillaging some of your tiles [opd] yeah you wanna buy a map [Sharpe] hmm, I thought you don't have Map Making yet? [opd] we will soon though... [Sharpe] I would control Mr McQueen's urge to pillage... [Kloreep] We can understand how hungry explorers get, but our farmers are rather handy with a pitchfork [Sharpe] would you be willing to sell your map? [opd] I'll let him know.. [opd] yeah we'll probably sell [opd] we have most of SS aswell [Sharpe] really? [Sharpe] any idea of what it would take for your map? [opd] if we were to get an embassy with them we could probably see all but one of their cities abd future cities [opd] I don't know we haven't really discussed it [Sharpe] have you been to Sunshine's south yet? [opd] we have all of sunshines south mapped [Sharpe] Today or Uday did that? [opd] a few of them did [Sharpe] ah [Sharpe] I guess LL is the only unmapped area then [opd] there are a few patches we don't have [opd] the far SW, the west of SS and LL [opd] SS likley has some LL territory mapped [Sharpe] oh really? at least someone has some of their area done [Sharpe] out of curiousity, is that block of cities the only ones that SS has? seems odd that they would only have 4 or 5 so far? [opd] some teams got better starts than others [Sharpe] hmm true [opd] from what I have seen of your land you have some good potential growth cities, [opd] I'm actually very pissed off about the map [Sharpe] food is nice - more for us to eat... [Sharpe] oh why so re the map? [opd] I don't really want to get into that though [Sharpe] admittedly we aren't thrilled with one aspect as well [Sharpe] seems like a lot of jungle and a lot of mountains in large areas ... [opd] and desert... [Sharpe] must be a 3 billion year old type of map [opd] mast also have some good growth it's just the lack of shields that is holding us back [Sharpe] surprising as we see that hill/mountain range SW of you [opd] yeah but it'll be a while before we get mines over there... [opd] desert tiles aren't that good for production... [opd] it took us ten turns to build our first jag warrior you know [Kloreep] Ouch [Sharpe] yeah - well if our industrious workers can help we may consider leasing them out for use later on [opd] hehe [Sharpe] ouch indeed [opd] anyway I think i've given away enough mast secrets for today... [opd] I'll see you guys around [Sharpe] k [Sharpe] cya * opd has quit IRC (Quit: ) End of #feast buffer Sun Dec 28 20:15:16 2003

	04-01-2004 09:03									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

*bump*

We're coming up on the completion of Lit. MAST is still a ways away from Rep, but what say we get a deal with them? I like the sound of Currency+Lit+2 IOUs on our side for Republic on theirs. We should probably include a 20-turn NTA; they'll want one if we don't include it, and at least we get Lit protected at the same time they get Rep protected.

	04-01-2004 09:20									#45
	Remove this text

I like the deal - question is: what should we do after we get Literature done in 4 turns?

	10-01-2004 07:02									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Chat with OPD. Started out in a private window:

quote: [17:15] [opd] hello [17:27] [Kloreep] Hi [17:28] [opd] how is Tabemono these days? [17:29] [Kloreep] Pretty good [17:29] [Kloreep] How's MAST doing? [17:29] [opd] fine [17:30] [opd] although I have forgotten the agreement we made with you recently.. [17:30] [Kloreep] ? [17:30] [opd] was it Lit and currency for Rep, or lit and const [17:30] [Kloreep] I don't think we agreed to anything recently. We were discussing a Rep trade [17:30] [opd] ah [17:30] [Kloreep] Lit+Currency for Rep is what we were discussing [17:31] [Kloreep] We've been discussing it recently and the team's in favor [17:31] [opd] cool [17:31] [Kloreep] What's the opinion at MAST? [17:32] [opd] is that with the clauses mentioned? [17:32] [Kloreep] A NTA and we give you two IOUs? [17:32] [Kloreep] I think those were the two [17:32] [opd] MAST operate freely in terms of diplomatic agreements [17:33] [opd] all members are free to make binding diplo agreements aslong as they agree with current policy [17:34] [opd] yes a NTA and a agreement that the trade would go ahead even if either party should get the techs from elsewhere. [17:35] [Kloreep] Sounds good [17:36] [opd] ok MAST can see this as a binding agreement. Would you like an email of the agreement? [17:36] [Kloreep] Yes, a PM or e-mail to sign would be good [17:37] [opd] ok, will send tommorrow [17:37] [Kloreep] I'm typing up something now if you want [17:37] [opd] yeah cool [17:38] [Kloreep] NTA for... 20 turns after trade? [17:38] [opd] we won't trade away any tech you give us ever [17:39] [Kloreep] eternal NTA? Okay, I don't think that will be a problem with my team [17:40] [opd] well is ok if you want to trade Rep in 20 turns [17:40] [Kloreep] Okay, I'll put in 20 for now then [17:42] [opd] BTW have you exchanged maps with SS? [17:42] [Kloreep] So [17:42] [Kloreep] *No [17:42] [Kloreep] Have you? [17:42] [opd] no [17:43] [opd] also LL will have MM next turn [17:43] [Kloreep] Hmm [17:43] [opd] they were trying to sell us currency in 16 turns too.... [17:43] [Kloreep] Interesting [17:44] [Kloreep] At least they're upholding the letter if not the spirit [17:45] [opd] I've asked LL what their views on map trading are but they haven't responded [17:45] [Kloreep] Wait, who was trying to: LL or Sunshine? [17:46] [opd] LL, although to be fair trying to is the wrong word, they stated that they could sell it to us in 16 turns, perhaps as part of a Republic deal. [17:46] [Kloreep] Interesting [17:49] [Kloreep] Here's what I've typed up: [17:49] [Kloreep] -Once MAST researches Republic and Tabemono researches Literacy, MAST will trade Republic to Tabemono in exchange for Currency and Literacy. [17:49] [Kloreep] -Both teams agree not to trade the techs received from the other for 20 turns after the trade is made. [17:49] [Kloreep] -Tabemono owes MAST two tech point IOUs on future trades. [17:49] [Kloreep] -This deal will not be broken should one team gain any of the involved techs before it goes through. The other techs involved will still be traded, even if it means one side gains no tech at all from it. [17:49] [opd] BTW the new LL city, I got the impression that you were planning to build a city there? [17:50] [opd] yeah thats cool [17:50] [Kloreep] We were planning on expanding out there eventually, yes. Seems LL has beat us to it though [17:50] [Kloreep] I'm surprised that settled that far away from the chokepoint [17:50] [Kloreep] Okay, I'll send it by PM [17:51] [opd] Lux are scarce though I suppose --- at this point Poly disconnected me for flooding after copying & pasting the above into #tabemono. Heh. --- [17:53] [Kloreep] okay, back [17:53] [opd] cool [17:54] [opd] will you need a copy of this log? [17:54] [Kloreep] No, I still have it [17:54] [Kloreep] mIRC saved my private chat with you [17:54] [Kloreep] *private chat window [17:54] [Kloreep] But thanks [17:55] [opd] ok, after you left I said MAST were hoping you would end up trading us one of those spices --- chat moved to #feast so Aidun could join in --- [17:56] * opd has joined #feast [17:56] * Kloreep sets mode: +o opd [17:56] [Kloreep] Hi [17:56] [opd] Aidun!!! [17:56] [Aidun] I meant to say: the chat you are having with OPD, is that PTWDG business or not [17:56] [Aidun] Hi OPD [17:56] [opd] do we have a Mon Imps room] [17:56] [Kloreep] Aidun: Ah. No, this is Tabemono, hence moving it to a channel [17:57] [Aidun] PTWDG II [17:57] [Kloreep] PTWDG II, yep [17:57] * opd no longers speaks concerning PTWDG1 [17:57] [Aidun] Yes OPD [17:57] [Aidun] this is the Monimp channel: #Monarchist_Imperialists [18:00] [Kloreep] Tech deal PM sent [18:02] [Kloreep] Re: Spices, we'll have one surplus spice eventually, but no more unless LL trades us that city or something [18:03] [Aidun] I have to catch up a lot before I can understand this. Maybe the ADSL will come soon now, than I have time for it. [18:04] [Kloreep] okay [18:06] [opd] did you notice CoD have palace jumped? [18:06] [Kloreep] Yeah, their palace vanished off the top five [18:07] [opd] although it could perhaps be due to some kind of millitary action [18:07] [Kloreep] Possible too... [18:07] [Kloreep] CoD hasn't sent the save yet although Arrian is on-line [18:08] [Aidun] CoD is? [18:08] [Kloreep] Cake or Death [18:08] [Kloreep] They send the save to Tabemono [18:09] [Kloreep] Arrian is one of their two turnplayers [18:09] [Aidun] If Arrian is on their team, I don't suppose it was an accident [18:09] [Kloreep] Yeah, it could be intentional [18:09] [opd] I didn't know Arrian played the save for them.. [18:09] [opd] I doubt it would be intentional [18:10] [Kloreep] It could be if their palace was in a crappy enough location [18:10] [Kloreep] Though this is a modified map [18:10] [opd] no wait I thought you meant not having played the save already.. [18:11] [Kloreep] ? [18:11] [opd] sorry I am quite drunk [18:11] [opd] and so get confused easily [18:11] [Kloreep] Okay, np [18:12] [Kloreep] I'll just use my master diplomatic maneuver now [18:12] [opd] hehe [18:12] [opd] I think the palace jump is almost certainly intentional [18:15] [opd] Cort Haus is pretty good as the micromanagement stuff [18:16] [Kloreep] Yes. And Izzardia has a decent score, so they aren't lacking in territory or pop [18:17] [Aidun] How drunk OPD? [18:18] [opd] drunk enough to have to go to bed soon, [18:18] [Aidun] [18:18] [Kloreep] hehe [18:19] [Kloreep] Any other PTWDG II business? [18:19] [opd] not really [18:19] [Kloreep] k [18:20] [opd] Unless you want to give away some tabemono info?????? [18:20] [Kloreep] Well, we're building up a tank army [18:20] [opd] well who isn't [18:20] [Kloreep] Yes, but the good part is, soon we cross the ocean and destroy Team Monkey [18:20] [Kloreep] Not much else happening besides that [18:21] [opd] I'm looking forward to all teams having contact [18:21] [Kloreep] Yeah, that'll be interesting [18:21] [opd] monkey in particular will be good to deal with [18:21] [Aidun] Kloreep could you send me that picture of our ICBM please? [18:22] -apolyton.net:@#feast- Kloreep invited Sharpe into channel #feast. [18:22] * Sharpe has joined #feast [18:22] [Kloreep] Aidun: sure. Which one? [18:22] [Sharpe] Hi! [18:22] [Kloreep] Hi [18:22] [Aidun] That side view [18:22] [opd] I expect python could be a bit harsh to deal with [18:22] [opd] heya [18:22] [Kloreep] Aidun: No, I mean which ICBM? [18:23] [Kloreep] OPD: Difficult? How so? [18:23] [Aidun] Uhhm the fourteenth? [18:23] [Kloreep] Aside from the fact that they'll demand the Holy Grail in trade [18:23] [Kloreep] Aidun: Okay, on its way [18:24] [Aidun] maybe a drop of blood is valid too? [18:24] [Aidun] in the trade... [18:24] [opd] SR is notoriously "unappreciative" of the diplo side of things [18:24] [opd] and Oct may be influenced by that [18:25] [opd] so how do you see the world looking? [18:26] [opd] Sometimes I think it may end up with mast and SS as kind of the centre of things like bob is in ptwdg1 [18:27] -apolyton.net:@#feast- Kloreep invited UnOrthOdOx into channel #feast. [18:27] [Kloreep] I'm not sure how it will end up... [18:27] * UnOrthOdOx has joined #feast [18:27] [opd] you have the save..... [18:27] [UnOrthOdOx] Hey guys. [18:27] [Kloreep] Hi [18:27] [Sharpe] not yet we don't [18:27] [Sharpe] I guess it is still on its way [18:28] [Kloreep] I think I have it now [18:28] [opd] how long do you think it will take to play the save? [18:28] [Kloreep] Just took a little while to get through the net [18:29] [Sharpe] re how long: depends on what happened [18:29] [Kloreep] Hopefully nothing unexpected will have come up [18:29] [Sharpe] btw you saw the new LL city opd? [18:30] [opd] yeah, we saw it moving there a few turns ago [18:30] [opd] in fact we saw it moving out of Perla [18:30] [Sharpe] yeah, and LL has another settler just built from their capital last turn probably too [18:31] [opd] we told you they had a settler this side iirc [18:31] [Sharpe] yes, and you turned out to be right [18:31] * Kloreep sets mode: +oo Sharpe UnOrthOdOx [18:31] [opd] well yeah we have a JW stationed right next to Perla... [18:31] [opd] we see everything that comes out of there [18:31] [Sharpe] if you happen to see this latest settler heading out, we wouldn't mind knowing too [18:32] [opd] ? [18:32] [Sharpe] LL just built another settler in their capital last turn - it dropped from size 5 to 3 [18:32] [opd] ah ok will do [18:33] [opd] what about 15 legions moving north? should we tell you about that too? [18:33] [Sharpe] if you want [18:34] [opd] Klor I still haven't recieved your pm [18:35] [opd] brb [18:35] [Kloreep] Odd [18:35] [Kloreep] I see it as already sent [18:37] * Aidun has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [18:45] [opd] still no pm [18:45] [Kloreep] Argh [18:45] [Kloreep] It's right there in my message tracking [18:45] [Kloreep] Don't know what's up with Poly [18:45] [opd] I'll reply to it in the morning [18:45] [opd] how close are you to sending the save? [18:46] [Sharpe] btw opd, any plans for MAST to build a city south of that LL Lolita city to get the other chokepoint there? [18:46] [opd] I mean will it be sent in the next 5 mins? [18:46] [Kloreep] OPD: Probably half an hour at the rate we're going... Get some sleep [18:46] [opd] other choke point? [18:46] [Kloreep] Sorry we can't send it sooner [18:47] [Sharpe] Lolita blocks off access to your part of the continent via the north - there is another similar narrow point to the south [18:47] [opd] ah [18:47] [Sharpe] if LL gained control of that it would block you off from us via road [18:48] [Sharpe] admittedly not likely as it is all jungle and hills [18:48] [opd] you realize us and SS are linked south of the sea/lake though? [18:48] [Sharpe] yes [18:49] [Sharpe] but we would be blocked off from you via road if they acquired (or Sunshine acquired) that area [18:49] [Sharpe] for trade and such [18:50] [opd] yeah I see what you mean [18:50] [opd] although that really isn't that much of a priority for us though [18:50] [Sharpe] true [18:50] [opd] trade will almost certainly be by harbour [18:53] [opd] if anything it would add to our securtiy really [18:55] [opd] Once the west coast of our continent is explored we'll be able to harbour trade round that side anyway [18:55] [Sharpe] true [18:56] [Sharpe] sorry if we are so silent as we are discussing the turn [18:56] [opd] lol how much can there be to discuss? [18:57] * opd suspects some millitary plans could be afoot [18:57] [Sharpe] nah, barb hunting [18:58] [opd] can you see the save? [18:58] [Kloreep] ? [18:58] [Sharpe] no, Kloreep sent me a copy [18:58] [Sharpe] err , nm [18:58] [opd] the small 1 tile lake just above the sea dividing us and SS [18:59] [Sharpe] yes, what about that lake? [18:59] [opd] we plan to build a city 1 tile SE of it eventually [18:59] [Sharpe] ah [19:00] [opd] not the lake next to Lolita, the one that looks like it should be part of the sea [19:01] [opd] that would allow us and eventual road link... [19:01] [Sharpe] true [19:01] [opd] anyway I have to go to bed too, I'm sure Bongo will play the save bright and early [19:01] [opd] later [19:01] * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )

The PM I sent:

quote: MAST-Tabemono Millenium Trade Deal: -Once MAST researches Republic and Tabemono researches Literacy, MAST will trade Republic to Tabemono in exchange for Currency and Literacy. -Both teams agree not to trade the techs received from the other for 20 turns after the trade is made. -Tabemono owes MAST two tech point IOUs on future trades. -This deal will not be broken should one team gain any of the involved techs before it goes through. The other techs involved will still be traded, even if it means one side gains no tech at all from it. -Signed by Kloreep for Tabemono

	12-01-2004 02:37									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From OPD:

quote: MAST-Tabemono Millenium Trade Deal: -Once MAST researches Republic and Tabemono researches Literacy, MAST will trade Republic to Tabemono in exchange for Currency and Literacy. -Both teams agree not to trade the techs received from the other for 20 turns after the trade is made. -Tabemono owes MAST two tech point IOUs on future trades. -This deal will not be broken should one team gain any of the involved techs before it goes through. The other techs involved will still be traded, even if it means one side gains no tech at all from it. -Signed by Kloreep for Tabemono -Signed by OPD for MAST

Edit: Short chat with OPD.

quote: [15:26] [opd] ok I have it [15:27] [Kloreep] Cool [15:29] [opd] reply sent [15:30] [Kloreep] Thanks [15:30] [Kloreep] So how far are you from Republic now? [15:32] [opd] 20 turns [15:32] [opd] do you have any galleys atm? [15:33] [Kloreep] We just launched one recently [15:35] [Kloreep] You? [15:36] [opd] we don't have MM yet [15:36] [Kloreep] Ah [15:36] [opd] we'll should be getting it off SS soon though [15:36] [opd] I think contacts with the other nations should come quite soon though.. [15:37] [Kloreep] Depends on how far away the other continent is. [15:37] [Kloreep] But it could happen pretty much anytime now

	17-01-2004 00:22									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From OPD:

quote: Just so you know, 2 vet legions came out of Perla this turn. I don't think it's a big deal myself, I think they're just going to fortify in their spice city. opd

My reply:

quote: quote: Just so you know, 2 vet legions came out of Perla this turn. Thanks for the info. quote: I don't think it's a big deal myself, I think they're just going to fortify in their spice city. opd Yeah, two is hardly an attack stack.

	14-02-2004 13:03									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: [00:53] * Now talking in #feast [00:53] * Arnelos has joined #feast [00:53] [Arnelos] hey [00:53] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o Arnelos [00:53] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +o Kloreep [00:53] [Arnelos] btw... were we going to set up an alliance with you guys? [00:53] [Kloreep] Hi [00:53] * UnOrthOdOx sets mode: +k hamburger [00:54] [UnOrthOdOx] We have been discussing that. [00:55] [UnOrthOdOx] Basically, we, or rather I, was wondering how you guys are getting along with LL. [00:56] [Arnelos] Well, on the *surface*, it seems that we get along quite fine [00:56] [UnOrthOdOx] below said surface? [00:56] [Arnelos] that said, they're building legionaries and building up on Tabemono/MAST side of the chokepoint and we're understandably concerned [00:57] [UnOrthOdOx] You know they are building legions then? [00:57] [UnOrthOdOx] You've seen some? [00:57] [Arnelos] We've seen them [00:57] [UnOrthOdOx] Or still doing warriors. [00:57] [UnOrthOdOx] How many? [00:57] [Arnelos] I know we've seen at least 1-2 legionaries [00:57] [Arnelos] lemme look [00:57] [Arnelos] I'd have to dig through old turn threads [00:57] [Arnelos] I know we've seen a few [00:57] [Arnelos] on our side of the chokepoint [00:57] [Arnelos] one of our Jaguars scouted out their road and saw a few [00:58] [UnOrthOdOx] Basically, we've been looking at the same thing. LL is...SHOULD attack someone soon. [00:58] [Arnelos] lemme go look which turn that was [00:59] [UnOrthOdOx] Of those to attack MAST and Tabemono are the two logical targets. [01:00] [Arnelos] oh yeah [01:00] [Arnelos] We've thought that LL had their eyes on one of us for a long while now [01:01] [Arnelos] and my own experience with the LL players in the MZO Diplomacy forum suggests these guys will attack soon [01:01] [Arnelos] I think Niessuh is the only builder on that team [01:02] [UnOrthOdOx] And here I'm surrounded by em. [01:05] [Arnelos] turn 84 [01:05] [Arnelos] we saw 2 vet legions with one of our jaguars... it's unclear whether LL realizes we saw them because it was a jag warrior that did a forward-backward into LL territory, I think [01:06] [UnOrthOdOx] How well could you guys withhold an attack? [01:06] [Arnelos] lemme go open a save... we're currently trying to defeat a massive barb uprising in the south [01:06] [Arnelos] I'll go look around [01:06] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll be frank. You're a long way down there. [01:07] [Arnelos] turn 87... we saw ANOTHER LL legion [01:07] [UnOrthOdOx] And Horses wouldn't exactly do anything to Legions. [01:08] [Arnelos] saw the same legion on turn 88 [01:09] [Arnelos] hmm... lemme load up our save [01:10] [Arnelos] 630 is the most recent, correct? [01:10] [Arnelos] yeah [01:10] [UnOrthOdOx] yes. [01:11] * Arnelos looks around at the MAST empire [01:11] * Arnelos assesses MAST military strength [01:11] * Arnelos starts crying [01:12] [Arnelos] worse still, LL can hit you guys from those 2 colony cities and there's not a damn thing we could do to help right now [01:13] [Arnelos] what little military we have is currently busy with a massive barb uprising in the south [01:13] * Arnelos is going to have to whip his team into shape [01:13] [UnOrthOdOx] You could help a bunch, really. [01:13] [UnOrthOdOx] Cutting a road or scouting would be just as helpfull [01:14] [Arnelos] true [01:14] [UnOrthOdOx] However, WE don't have any way of getting down to YOU. [01:14] [Arnelos] scouting we can do, cutting roads we can do [01:14] [Arnelos] also true [01:14] [UnOrthOdOx] In anything resembling a quick fashion, that is. [01:14] [Arnelos] if LL attacked us right now, we'd fall over [01:14] [Arnelos] I can't see us even stopping a modest stack of legionaries [01:15] [Arnelos] we're going to need more troops [01:15] [Arnelos] thankfully... SS has more troops and we have a road connection to them now [01:15] [Arnelos] they could lend assistance far sooner [01:15] [UnOrthOdOx] I've been screaming for hordes of em, ask Kloreep. [01:15] [Arnelos] and have expressed interest in doing so [01:15] [UnOrthOdOx] I think they feel i'm insane... [01:15] [Arnelos] you're not [01:16] [Kloreep] Hehe [01:16] [Arnelos] our military is pathetic... I'm going to start screaming for nothing but units [01:16] [UnOrthOdOx] How close are you guys to Sunshine? [01:16] [Arnelos] geographically or diplomatically? [01:16] [UnOrthOdOx] If you could get some Hoplites on your side... [01:16] [UnOrthOdOx] Diplo [01:17] [UnOrthOdOx] They're closer than us. [01:17] [Arnelos] SS wants an MPP, I believe we may be about to sign it [01:17] [Arnelos] yes, hoplites would help [01:17] [Arnelos] that's the idea [01:18] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, I'll tell you this. [01:19] [UnOrthOdOx] I don't think we really want to see you crushed or LL will just outproduce us later. [01:20] [UnOrthOdOx] At the same time, our current fast units are ill suited to fighting legions and slow ones need to be kept home in case of an attack on us. [01:21] [UnOrthOdOx] That's basically where we stand. [01:22] [Arnelos] We honestly think LL may have you guys as a target as well [01:23] [Arnelos] they may just bypass us, seeing as we couldn't do much to help you, and head straight for you [01:23] [UnOrthOdOx] Some deep dark part of me wants them to come at us. [01:23] [Arnelos] Sunshine seems to think that's what's going to happen as well... don't know if LL has talked to them [01:23] [UnOrthOdOx] Fighting off a SoD of Legions... [01:23] [UnOrthOdOx] Just sounds like a fun thing to try. [01:24] [Arnelos] point is, if LL has to pick, they might just go after their priniciple rival, which is clearly you guys... if you're diminshed, Sunshine and MAST would be a walk in the park [01:24] [UnOrthOdOx] Yes. [01:24] [UnOrthOdOx] That's what we see as well. [01:25] [UnOrthOdOx] Of course it hasn't escaped our notice that either or both of you and sunshine could stand to gain by joining LL as well [01:25] [Arnelos] Sunshine seem tempted to think so... we've endeavored to convince them otherwise [01:25] [Arnelos] we can clearly see that if LL beats ANYONE, we're all ****ed [01:26] [Arnelos] quite frankly, I wouldn't mind a 3-way alliance, but that's just me [01:27] [UnOrthOdOx] We have noticed that SS and LL are 'researching' the same thing...constantly. [01:27] [Arnelos] yeah... SS seems to be trying to purposely undercut LL in research [01:27] [UnOrthOdOx] Are you so sure? [01:27] [Arnelos] it might be the other way around... that's just my guess [01:28] [Arnelos] my guess is that SS is doing it on purpose [01:28] [Arnelos] counting on the fact that Tabemono and MAST are afraid of LL and thus more likely to make a deal with SS [01:28] [Arnelos] it just seems to be the way Togas thinks [01:28] [UnOrthOdOx] Worst case is Sunshine is researching FOR LL to pay for upgrades. [01:28] [Arnelos] possible [01:30] [Arnelos] I certainly wouldn't put it past them [01:31] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll bring the idea of a 3-way alliance to the forum. [01:31] [Arnelos] well, I'm not sure even my own team would support it, we'll see * Retrieving #feast info... [01:32] [Arnelos] I have no idea how Sunshine would react [01:32] [UnOrthOdOx] I'm not sure we would either, frankly. [01:32] [Arnelos] in fact, I suspect that Sunshine wouldn't like it, but would feel compelled to go along with it if we really wanted it [01:33] [UnOrthOdOx] Well, SS and LL attacking either of us would be the smartest move for the both of them, I think. [01:33] [Arnelos] my suspicion is that Sunshine is looking at how an LL war with either Tabemono and/or MAST can help Sunshine end up on top afterwards... they don't want LL to win, but they also don't want LL beaten too easily... it's going to be rough getting their help on some stuff, I think [01:34] [UnOrthOdOx] Probably. [01:35] [Arnelos] frankly, I think Tabemono and MAST are going to have a mutual interest for some time - largely because once the LL threat is diminished (if we can manage that), Sunshine is going to become one [01:35] [UnOrthOdOx] At this point, though, having them remain neutral or against LL gaining land is the most important thing for the both of us. [01:36] [Arnelos] right [01:36] [Arnelos] which is why we're looking to sign their alliance [01:36] [Arnelos] we at least want them on our side [01:38] [Arnelos] well, I'll get my team discussing an alliance with you guys [01:39] [Arnelos] straight-up MPP or what else? [01:39] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll do the same. [01:39] [Arnelos] ok [01:39] [UnOrthOdOx] Yes for now. [01:39] [Arnelos] and we need to get both of our teams to build more units! [01:39] [Arnelos] LL is coming soon [01:39] [Arnelos] and we're whoefully under-prepared [01:39] [Arnelos] woefully [01:39] [UnOrthOdOx] We're watching the Mil Advisor for the time. [01:40] [UnOrthOdOx] We should notice the mass upgrade to give us a little time. [01:40] [Arnelos] I see what our strategy is, but it's going to be iffy [01:40] [Arnelos] we're going to need a lot of money for upgrades in a few turns [01:41] [UnOrthOdOx] We could possibly be in a position to aid in some of that. [01:42] [Arnelos] we finish Republic in 5 turns [01:42] [Arnelos] after that, we need to upgrade our military with every drop of gold we can get [01:42] [Arnelos] we have a lot of jaguar warriors [01:42] [Arnelos] so if we upgraded, we might have a decent shot [01:42] [UnOrthOdOx] I figured you would. [01:42] [Arnelos] we're going to need catapults [01:43] [Arnelos] that's been my knee-jerk gripe for ages... I'm going to make it louder now [01:43] [UnOrthOdOx] hehe. [01:43] [UnOrthOdOx] Sounds like me a few turns ago. [01:43] [Arnelos] stopping a stack of legionaries w/o catapults is going to be nigh-on impossible [01:44] [Arnelos] of course... there being 16 barb horsemen just south of us isn't helping anything [01:44] [UnOrthOdOx] Ouch. [01:45] [UnOrthOdOx] Hate to mention it, but in such a position I have purposely built a town for them to pillage before... [01:45] [Arnelos] that's not a bad idea [01:45] [Arnelos] we have a settler being completed in the capital next turn [01:45] [UnOrthOdOx] If you have no bank, a new town loses NOTHING... [01:45] [Arnelos] yup [01:45] [Arnelos] we have no money [01:45] [UnOrthOdOx] Let that horde of 40 horses just have a field day. [01:46] [Arnelos] not a bad idea at all [01:46] [UnOrthOdOx] If you DO have cash, we could hold it for the duration as well. [01:47] [Arnelos] we have a treasury of all of 9 gold [01:47] [Arnelos] we've been deficit researching Republic [01:47] [UnOrthOdOx] How much deficit? [01:48] [Arnelos] -3 GPT at the moment [01:51] [UnOrthOdOx] I'll bring that up and let the builders decide whether A: we can help with that research to get it quicker and B: whether we WANT republic quicker. [01:52] [Arnelos] what we desperately need is a lux [01:52] [UnOrthOdOx] hmmm. [01:52] [Kloreep] Will you have a harbor any time soon? [01:52] [UnOrthOdOx] How close to having a harbor are you? [01:52] [UnOrthOdOx] That's ALLOT of jungle to cut a road through. [01:52] [Arnelos] only way I see us getting a lux is from SS [01:53] [Arnelos] of course, they don't have one right now [01:53] [UnOrthOdOx] Perhaps we could get them to work on a joint road project with us. [01:54] [UnOrthOdOx] Connect us to them, and thus to you? [01:54] [Arnelos] certainly wouldn't hurt... there's 2 incense sources between you and an iron source [01:54] [UnOrthOdOx] (thus away from LL and subject to cutting) [01:54] [Arnelos] that's the other thing... we have no iron [01:54] [Arnelos] w/o iron, we can't upgrade those jags [01:54] [UnOrthOdOx] We should have access to 2 sources relatively soon. [01:55] [Arnelos] the only other thing is for us to poprush a harbor in IchBinEinStinker [01:56] [Arnelos] since we can see a coastal route around the far side of LL, we could have a harbor-to-harbor connection [01:56] [UnOrthOdOx] Yep. [01:57] [Arnelos] you guys have a harbor? [01:57] [UnOrthOdOx] We'll be happy to help with the Lux, and later an Iron. [01:57] [Arnelos] that would help tons [01:57] [UnOrthOdOx] We're working on one the local builderer tells me [01:57] [Kloreep] Arnelos: We'll have a harbor soon [01:57] [Arnelos] the lux would let us turn down our lux slider and more money to upgrades... the iron lets us upgrade AT ALL [01:57] [Kloreep] In abotu 5 turns I think [01:57] [Arnelos] ok [01:58] [Kloreep] So if you can build a harbor at your end, we can start trading [01:58] [Arnelos] I'll fight for changing the build in IchBinEinStinker to harbor... we pop rush it if need be [01:58] [Arnelos] thank god for that LL map [01:58] [Arnelos] w/o it we couldn' trade [01:59] [Kloreep] Won't that make the connection cutable though? [01:59] [UnOrthOdOx] Perhaps we should think of a joint scouting of the west coast... [01:59] [Arnelos] sea connections cannot be cut, I believe [01:59] [UnOrthOdOx] not at this point, Kloreep. [01:59] [UnOrthOdOx] Due to the islands. [01:59] [Arnelos] unless you blockade the port, AFAIK [01:59] [Kloreep] Do blockades need to be right next to the port? [02:00] [Arnelos] wait... does the connection work through hostile coastal waters? I believe it DOES... but we oughta check [02:00] [Kloreep] Yeah, that's what I was thinking [02:00] [Arnelos] sounds like a sim is in order [02:00] [Kloreep] Yeah [02:00] [UnOrthOdOx] I think it does, but perhaps not with also a boat... [02:00] [Kloreep] If blockades can be at any chokepoint, there's one big fat chokepoint around the continent... [02:01] [Kloreep] Actually, not so big and fat, which is the problem [02:01] * Arnelos has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:02] [UnOrthOdOx] holy hell, it's 1 AM [02:02] [Kloreep] Yeah [02:02] [Kloreep] 2 AM here actually [02:02] [UnOrthOdOx] ****. [02:02] [Kloreep] Good thing I don't need to get up here early tomorrow. [02:02] [UnOrthOdOx] Can you log this? [02:02] [Kloreep] Yep [02:02] [UnOrthOdOx] I gotta get the house ready... [02:02] [Kloreep] k [02:03] [UnOrthOdOx] Wife gets home in 2 hours. [02:03] * UnOrthOdOx has quit IRC (Quit: )

	02-03-2004 04:23									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

PM from OPD.

quote: Hello, I've sent Republic accepted to you this turn. So how are things with Tabemono? Is everything cool? Do you think you'll have a harbor and some spare luxuries to trade any time soon? opd

My quick reply:

quote: Cool, thanks. Us Tabejins are very excited at the prospect of all the extra food Republic can bring. Things are pretty good here. We finally have a spare lux (furs) and a harbor with which to trade it. I'm sure we could work out a deal.

	03-03-2004 07:13									#51
	Remove this text

Response from OPD:

quote: Cool, some furs would also be great, I must have missed that you had a harbor but we'll certainly be needing some luxs without the mill police in Rep. We're 4 turns, plus gov transition time, away from a harbor Also do you have contact with any of the other teams? Should there be a situation where you have contact with other nations who are in need of Republic we could certainly be willing to compromise about the 20 turn NDA? From the f11 I can tell that one of the other 3 teams is in anarchy since the turn before last but the other 2 are not and have not been at any point in the game. Anyway glad to hear all is well, those LL cities are pretty close to your borders though... opd

	22-03-2004 00:39									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Given OPD's comments in the "Save Game Comments" public thread, I sent him a PM suggesting a Tabemono-MAST chat soon.

	22-03-2004 01:38									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From OPD (he only sent it a few hours ago; I got back just in time )

quote: Greetings Tabemonoians We have contact with CoD!!! if that had anything to do with you then we greatly appreciate it, thank you So how are things with Tabe? This turn we finished building a harbor and would like to talk lux trade as you have 2 different excess luxs. Would you be willing to trade these? In terms of price what would you think appropriate? Us getting one lux would save us 8 gpt and getting 2 luxs would save us 18 gpt. Therefore what would you say to a price of 4 gpt for 1 lux or 9 gpt for 2 lux? Also how are you for tech, SS said you are doing Feudalism? We were talking to them about the possiblity of us researching Invention and trading it to them for Mono and perhaps trading it to you for an Upfront Feudalism (as it is a pre-req) OPD ps- are you guys ok? We're slightly worried that neither you or SS have started a revolution to enter Rep yet?

	22-03-2004 04:24									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Chat with opd before Kloreep joined

quote: [opd] hey hey [Sharpe] Hi, got my message? [opd] yup [Sharpe] You look at your turn yet? [opd] yeah was that you giving us contact? [Sharpe] yes [opd] ty [Sharpe] we traded yours and Sunshine's for Monkey's [Sharpe] However we are not permitted to trade you Monkeys by order of Python and Izzardia [opd] did you get my pm to Kloorep yet? [opd] ok [Sharpe] which pm is that? [opd] I sent him a pm about an hour ago [opd] so how long have you had contact? [Sharpe] no, Kloreep has been away for 4 days [Sharpe] a few turns [Sharpe] LL has been longer than us it seems [Sharpe] we were negotiating the contacts trade and a map trade [opd] yeah I would expect that [opd] well we offered CoD our map this turn [Sharpe] we now have their world map [opd] cool so how do things look? [Sharpe] the map was a tricky issue - they didn't want to trade, they wanted only territory map trades but finally we got a world map trade [Sharpe] interesting [Sharpe] we will likely be trading the map to you and Sunshine next turn [opd] cool [Sharpe] we think LL already traded maps [opd] did you have to pay for the map? [Sharpe] though we shall try to find out if they have [Sharpe] for certain [Sharpe] no, straight map trade [opd] how much? [opd] ok [Sharpe] it has all of Python, Monkey and Izzardia [opd] the whole world [Sharpe] the known world yes [Sharpe] how is the harbor status with MAST btw? [opd] finished this turn [Sharpe] k [opd] I spoke about that in the pm to kloreep [Sharpe] it might interest you to know that the other continent has no iron [opd] omg [Sharpe] they had 1 iron but it expired [opd] that's crazy [Sharpe] it is puzzling admittedly [Sharpe] you also see the new LL city? [opd] Panzer did make a funny map [opd] yeah to LL city [Sharpe] they landed yet another settler north of their new city as well [opd] I'll load up the game [Sharpe] we think they may try to head your way [Sharpe] k [opd] where did their settler land? [Sharpe] loading up game here just a sec [opd] I don't know about LL building cities towards us, it's all jungle and we'd likely culture rape them anyway [Sharpe] North of Leonor on a road [Sharpe] road goes as far west as Gisele now [Sharpe] and they have a worker E of Leonor [opd] hmmmn they may be going to block you off from the south [Sharpe] or cut you off [opd] do you see the SS iron source directly north of las vegas? [Sharpe] they might head S-S of that one tile lake [Sharpe] yes [Sharpe] re iron source yes [opd] they have 2 warrior 1 east of there [Sharpe] LL does? [opd] they have been moving northwards ie not towards any of their current cities [Sharpe] LL has 2 warriors near us too E of our new cities [Sharpe] new city I mean [opd] I doubt they'd build a city s,s of tehe 1 tile lake [Sharpe] 2 turns ago they had 2 warriors on our border and we had moved units to our side of the border (and just E of our border) and LL sent us a PM wondering what our intentions were [opd] for one we'd probably have it inside our culture by the time they got there, but also it'd be very prone to our culture [opd] hmmmm [Sharpe] yeah, your cheaper temples come in handy eh? [opd] yeah Virignscity expands soon [Sharpe] good the game will be useful to you [opd] and we're already pushing on yocasta [Sharpe] how are things with you and Sunshine these days? [opd] we're cool [opd] at least I think so, not much contact recently [opd] In my pm to Klp I ask about tech trades [opd] we have engineering atm and are wondering what to do next as you are doing feud [Sharpe] you have engineering already? [opd] yeah, swap for Rep and 80g [Sharpe] from LL? [opd] no SS [Sharpe] or SS [Sharpe] ah k [opd] btw why no Anarchy for you? [opd] or SS for that matter? [Sharpe] we are finishing up some things first [Sharpe] unlike you we will have several turns of anarchy [Sharpe] we are done feud soon [Sharpe] we aren't sure what we are doing next yet [opd] If you go for Chiv we'd quite like to do invention [opd] although we'd need Feud first [Sharpe] yeah I think so [Sharpe] re you needing Feud [Sharpe] SS should be done Monotheism soon I think - wonder what they will do next [opd] theo afaik [Sharpe] afaik? [opd] we spoke to them about techs a while ago [Sharpe] makes sense given their chosen style of play [opd] we wanted to do Theo, but they suggest we get feud from you and do invention instead [Sharpe] btw Python and Izzardia seem to be in a tight alliance [opd] yeah I would expect so [opd] how are the monkeys [Sharpe] weak [opd] do you know much of the political/territorial situation? [Sharpe] I suspect that in time there will only be 2 allied civs on that continent [Sharpe] still unravelling that [opd] Does war loom? [Sharpe] no, war exists [opd] wow [Sharpe] Monkey has lost 2 cities [opd] both against monkey? [Sharpe] maybe [Sharpe] certainly Izzardia [opd] kloreep is here [Sharpe] do you mind switching to a room so Kloreep can join us [opd] yup [opd] where to? [Sharpe] #feast meal

	22-03-2004 04:37									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Part 2.

quote: [14:17] * Now talking in #feast [14:17] [Kloreep] Hi [14:17] [opd] hey K [14:17] [opd] did you get my message? [14:17] [Kloreep] opd: Not yet [14:17] [Kloreep] I just got back from a trip [14:17] [opd] k [14:17] [Kloreep] I have about five days worth of DGs to catch up on [14:17] [opd] cool [14:17] [Sharpe] opd, would you mind if I spend a couple of minutes with Kloreep [14:18] [opd] so how do Monkey compare to say us or SS economically [14:18] [opd] ok back in a bit [14:18] [Sharpe] get him up to speed [14:24] [Sharpe] hard to say vis a vis Monkey we haven't talked to them yet - their power is slightly higher than yours on the power graph [14:24] [Sharpe] very slightly [14:32] [opd] how does their land look? [14:33] [Sharpe] whose land ? [14:33] [opd] Monkey's [14:33] [Sharpe] mostly grassland and some hills [14:33] [Sharpe] and tundra [14:33] [Sharpe] they have the only ivory in the game [14:34] [opd] hehe [14:34] [opd] does everyone over there have horses? [14:35] [Sharpe] not sure [14:35] [Sharpe] Monkey does on an island [14:38] [opd] so do you guys have any concern for how things are looking atm? [14:38] [Sharpe] not srue [14:38] [Sharpe] not sure [14:38] [Sharpe] LL continues to aggressively grab more land it seems [14:40] [opd] will you have feud before you go into anarchy? [14:40] [Sharpe] yes [14:40] [opd] do you have any kind of leo's prebuild? [14:40] [opd] We'd much rather you got Leo's than one of the others [14:41] [opd] I doubt SS would be capable and we're certainly not [14:41] [Sharpe] I don't think others would share your opinion re Leo's as we already have Pyramids [14:41] [Sharpe] we strongly suspect LL has been working on a prebuild for a long time [14:42] [opd] So what do you think to us researching Invention? [14:42] [Sharpe] depends on how fast you get tech compared to us [14:42] [Sharpe] Chivalry is 32, Invention is 44 IIRC [14:43] [Sharpe] I bet you will have some sources of saltpeter with all of that desert [14:43] [Sharpe] so it should be interesting re gunpowder [14:43] [opd] Thats the hope [14:44] [opd] we don't have anything else [14:44] [opd] how close is your Leo's prebuild? [14:44] [Sharpe] not close unfortunately [14:45] [opd] MAST are getting stronger economically [14:45] [Sharpe] good [14:45] [opd] I don't think Invention would be that long [14:46] [opd] we palace jump quite soon [14:46] [opd] which will give us a boost [14:46] [Sharpe] how long would it take you to get Chivalry? [14:46] [Sharpe] oops I mean feud - take that and multiply it by 44 and divide by 32 [14:47] [opd] it's hard to say ATM [14:47] [Sharpe] same here as we haven't switched to Rep yet [14:47] [opd] with current GNP it would take 24 turns [14:48] [opd] however in reality I'd expect it to be less [14:48] [Sharpe] how is your gold re upgrades? [14:49] [opd] well we don't even have the units to upgrade [14:49] [Sharpe] jaguars [14:49] [Sharpe] and spears [14:49] [Sharpe] once you get iron [14:49] [opd] we have no iron [14:49] [Sharpe] we will have a 2nd source connected soon [14:50] [opd] We don't have much gold to spare [14:50] [Sharpe] what is your view of the continental situation? [14:51] [Sharpe] I understand you have a MPP with Sunshine now [14:51] [opd] no [14:51] [opd] who told you that? [14:51] [Sharpe] Togas [14:52] [opd] We do more or less [14:52] [opd] We'd help them but we don't have anything in writing [14:53] [Sharpe] hmm, what is MAST's view of our continent's situation then? [14:53] [opd] well were cool with LL for the time being, and good buddies with SS [14:53] [opd] We also like to think we're good buddies with you [14:54] [Sharpe] sure [14:54] [opd] Although I think SS will likely start to fade a bit soon [14:54] [Sharpe] I don't know SS has a lot of good land [14:54] [opd] I mean economically I don't think their outlook is that good [14:55] [opd] don't tell them I said that though [14:55] [Sharpe] k [14:57] [opd] LL have a nice concept with their 10 or so cities at 5 distance but I don't know how it will work in the long run [14:57] [Sharpe] LL is running out of room to settle in [14:57] [opd] you're looking in good shape [14:58] [opd] the question for LL is where they will build their FP [14:58] [Sharpe] well aside from that stupid lake in the middle [14:58] [Sharpe] their "tail" is a possibility [14:58] [opd] to tell you the truth we wouldn't mind that much if they did FP around there [14:59] [opd] as other than that their only option would be our land [14:59] [Sharpe] you may change your mind on that when you see the map [14:59] [Sharpe] [14:59] [opd] do they have cities on the other continent? [15:00] [Sharpe] no, but you can reach the other continent without suiciding [15:00] [opd] hmmmn is there land for them there? [15:00] [Sharpe] so it isn't far away from LL [15:00] [Sharpe] no, not near LL [15:00] [Sharpe] there is east of you but you have a wide ocean to cross at that point [15:02] [Sharpe] btw you have a barb camp SE of you [15:02] [Sharpe] beyond the river to your south [15:02] [opd] yeah it should be gone next turn [15:02] [Sharpe] k [15:03] [opd] so how likely do you think a war is between you and LL? [15:03] [Sharpe] not sure [15:04] [opd] of course it goes without saying that we wouldn't pass on any thing you say to us [15:04] [opd] do you think there may be a war with you as the aggressor [15:04] [Sharpe] honestly we aren't really sure [15:05] [Sharpe] We won't stand around [15:05] [opd] do you want to sell us some lux? [15:05] [opd] you won't stand around? [15:06] [Sharpe] if LL attacks anyone we will likely not stand around idlely [15:07] [opd] you realize that the tail is more defence than offensive really? [15:07] [Sharpe] I don't see that for certain [15:08] [opd] I mean if you were to take the city of Giselle LL would be screwed [15:08] [Sharpe] their tail is a very fast way to send units towards our border via road [15:08] [opd] yeah [15:09] [opd] although I think LL would be very foolish to try anything against you [15:09] [opd] I mean you've got the badass UU coming up [15:09] [Sharpe] well we believe their military is as large as ours - they just haven't upgraded their warriors yet [15:10] [Sharpe] they seem to be gathering a TON of gold [15:10] [Sharpe] what would you think about what they are doing? [15:11] [opd] I guess it's tricky [15:11] [opd] how do you know they have alot of gold? [15:11] [opd] and how much do they have? [15:11] [Sharpe] they are taking longer to research than it should take - plus they have stopped researching right now [15:12] [opd] how long exactly are you from Feud? [15:12] [opd] if they are going to make a move against you they're cutting it very close [15:13] [opd] although they couldn't untill now due to not being in Rep [15:13] [Sharpe] if they think they can get Leo's before we can get enough Riders they won't have cut it close [15:14] [opd] I'd be inclined to think LL may be very worried about you [15:15] [Sharpe] that would be funny - as we haven't been aggressive with anybody [15:15] [opd] yeah but you do have a large millitary and Riders coming up. [15:15] [Sharpe] we have been friendly, willing traders and been open to all [15:16] [Sharpe] we have tried to talk NAP/MPP with LL and borders but they have been elusive [15:17] [opd] that's not a good sign [15:18] [Sharpe] just again after they wondered what we were doing 2 turns ago - we again brought up borders, tech agreements and a NAP but they haven't responded much [15:18] [opd] would you be ok to defend yourselves should they try to attack you the turn you go into anarchy? [15:19] [Sharpe] Depends on how big a stack they send [15:20] [opd] well I guess there is always a problem with being the biggest nation around [15:21] [Sharpe] who is? [15:21] [opd] you are [15:21] [Sharpe] LL is the biggest nation in land size [15:21] [opd] you're no1 in MFG though? [15:21] [opd] and you have the biggest millitary? [15:22] [opd] and the pyramids and biggest pop? [15:22] [opd] We were 3rd in Landmass for a turn a while back [15:22] [Sharpe] no, no, yes and yes [15:23] [opd] hmmn ok [15:23] [Sharpe] LL is #1 in land mass - at least from what C3C says [15:24] [opd] I guess LL may have been a bit annoyed when you built on those islands by them [15:24] [opd] Mast are 4th in GNP [15:24] [opd] we were 3rd for 1 turn [15:24] [Sharpe] they built that city Lolita before we settled on that island [15:25] [Sharpe] Izzardia is #1 in GNP by a mile [15:25] [opd] yeah? [15:26] [opd] how do they look economically? [15:26] [Sharpe] they have 8 silks and 2 wines [15:26] [opd] how many cities do they have at size 4 + [15:27] [Sharpe] 7 of their 14 cities [15:28] [Sharpe] 10 of Python's 13 cities are size 4 and 4+ [15:28] [opd] hmmmn [15:29] [Sharpe] 4 of Monkey's 9 cities are size 4 and 4+ [15:29] [opd] how is there land in terms of long term potential? palace placement and such? [15:30] [Sharpe] very good palace and FP potential spots [15:30] [Sharpe] but I am no expert on that [15:30] [opd] do you think our continent can compete with those 2 allies in the long term? [15:31] [Sharpe] well we do have 4 civs [15:31] [Sharpe] their continent is smaller [15:31] [opd] I guess it would require us being on better terms with LL [15:32] [Sharpe] if it is 3 on 3 , they would have an advantage [15:33] [opd] Do you want to talk lux trades? [15:33] [Sharpe] well we only have more than 1 fur currently connected [15:33] [Sharpe] I think [15:34] [opd] you have furs and spices avaliable to trade [15:34] [Sharpe] we will have spice once we finish roading it - I think that is soon [15:35] [opd] Well I'm looking at the trade screen now and it says you have a spice and a fur to trade :P [15:35] [Sharpe] oh? let me check that [15:35] [Kloreep] I think we have spices available now [15:35] [opd] although I guess SS would get the spice? [15:35] [Kloreep] We just finished that road [15:36] [Sharpe] shoot can't see that stupid road in the forest [15:37] [opd] so do you want to trade? [15:37] [opd] well sell, :/ [15:38] [Sharpe] I am sure we could come to some sort of agreement on a trade [15:40] [Sharpe] I don't know if you and Sunshine have a border agreement yet - as there is a spice south near them [15:41] [opd] we wouldn't go for that [15:41] [Sharpe] kinda far admittedly from you eh? [15:41] [opd] that would be mean [15:41] [opd] yeah [15:41] [Sharpe] shame that a fair amount of land S of you is tundra [15:41] [opd] yeah [15:42] [opd] some ok grass and hills though [15:42] [Sharpe] though that will guarantee you oil if the game goes that far [15:42] [opd] well normally I'd agree [15:43] [opd] but not with this map [15:43] [Sharpe] it is an ....unusual map eh? [15:43] [opd] yeah annoying as hell [15:43] [Sharpe] yeah, tell us about it re our lake [15:44] [opd] I mean really having no resources or lux???????? [15:44] [Sharpe] yeah, you got screwed [15:44] [Sharpe] for the early game at least - though maybe Panzer expected you to attack early, attack often [15:45] [opd] I dunno [15:45] [Sharpe] I find it curious that the food team has lots of food, the defensive team (Sunshine) has a solid defensive area etc [15:45] [opd] if here though that he would have given us some production [15:45] [opd] I mean 10 turns for our first JW was a killer [15:45] [Sharpe] so you are interested in luxs , what about iron? [15:45] [opd] It's like we got no use out of them whatsoever [15:46] [opd] just lux right now [15:46] [opd] can you trade both or just furs? [15:46] [Sharpe] we will have to talk about it with the rest of the team [15:47] [Kloreep] I don't see any problem myself [15:47] [Sharpe] nor I , but Unorthodox is.... unorthodox in his views [15:47] [opd] ok I mentioned it in my pm to klp anyway [15:47] [Kloreep] I'm in favor of trading both [15:47] [Kloreep] I'll lobby for it in our forum [15:47] * Kloreep holds his hand out for a bribe under the table [15:47] [opd] also what do you think to the trades? [15:48] [opd] I mean techs [15:48] [Sharpe] you said it should be less than 24 turns for invention? [15:48] [opd] that was chiv [15:48] [Sharpe] oh k [15:48] [opd] I'm almost certain it would be less than 24 for invention though [15:49] [opd] we should get a good economy boost soon [15:49] [Sharpe] k [15:50] [Sharpe] we aren't really sure how our economy will be [15:51] [opd] BTW do you think LL have been trading many techs with the other continent [15:51] [Sharpe] well LL got Republic from somewhere didn't they? [15:51] [opd] that was us [15:51] [Sharpe] oh k [15:52] [opd] we need the techs from them to get into the Med age [15:52] [Sharpe] just Izzardia got Construction the same turn that LL got Republic so we assumed a trade was made [15:54] [Sharpe] if MAST was to have a 3 way alliance, who would you choose for your 2 partners? [15:56] [Sharpe] nm silly question [15:58] [Sharpe] so all but Monkey are in the Med age then [16:00] [opd] Is there anything else you guys would like to bring ups? [16:00] [Sharpe] don't think so [16:03] [opd] we'd go for you and SS I guess [16:04] [opd] yeah all but Monkey in med [16:04] [Sharpe] though you will have to take our word for that [16:04] [opd] yeah there's no way I wouldn't say you really... [16:05] [Sharpe] just kidding - confirmed , Monkey is the only one not in Med Age [16:06] [opd] if it were to come down to a 3 v 3 i think we may have a chance [16:06] [Sharpe] not sure about that [16:07] [Sharpe] not if LL was part of the other continent 3 - they are too strong - if LL, Tabemono and one other - then yes [16:07] [Sharpe] do you think we could get a continental alliance? [16:07] [Sharpe] the 4 of us - is that even possible? [16:08] [opd] I don't know if LL would be sympathic enough to our cause [16:08] [opd] I may be worth a try though [16:08] [opd] *it [16:12] [opd] anyway gotta go, later [16:12] [Sharpe] k cya

	22-03-2004 08:53									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

Can I get a cliff notes of that? I have trouble reading chats.

	23-03-2004 03:16									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Greetings! I tried this earlier and poly crashed. Alrighty, I'll be brief and to the point. I'm a bit blunt I'm told, but I mean no offense, I just find it easier in diplomacy. I hear that contacts arrived your way safely. I am pleased that this deal finally is comming to reality as it has been a long and tedious string of negotiating with the other side of the pond. I am also pleased to inform you that next save, we will be sending you a complete map of the other landmass! I apologize this did not arrive with the 410 save, but alas, I was not present to issue the orders when it was played. This was also a part of the aforementioned negotiations. Unfortunately, these negotiations are also preventing us from sharing contact with team Monkey. All I can say is that neither Python nor Cake or Death would allow us to trade that contact away, so you'll need to obtain it elsewhere, I'm afraid. On the plus side, you will be happy to note that the entire other continent no longer has Iron. Their sole source expired and appeared under one of our own cities. This may prove usefull down the road. On current business: 1. Tabemono is polling on the lux, looks promising. 2. I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty of adding an option of us *GIFTING* you Iron to that poll as well. It is also looking promising. Would you be agreeable to such a trade with the provision you agree to use said iron against niether SS nor Tabemono? 3. Is there a time that we can meet for chat? My times would include 10 AM - 1 PM GMT and 4 AM to late as need be GMT. I wish to discuss the future. - UnOrthOdOx on behalf of Tabemono.

	06-04-2004 05:00									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Message from OPD of MAST:

quote: Hello Tabe We have recently had communications from LL stating that they have spare gold and would like to use it to purchase technology, make of that what you will but do not let on that I told you. They also asked about future research trades. Therefore we could do with know asap (preferably right away) whether we have an agreement with you whereby you give us Feudalism and we research invention/chivalry to trade back to you? Please note we'd rather not continue on 100% science anymore and so we will possibly research Feudalism ourselves if we cannot come to a deal with you soon. Also what news do you have regarding lux trade? opd

and my response a couple of hours later:

quote: Hi OPD, I posted your message in our forum. Hopefully we can arrange a chat soon - what days and times are good for you? re the luxuries, I think we are in agreement on it - assuming you have a harbor done now or soon, we should be able to do something shortly (assuming Monkey and the other civs on the other continent don't take another 3 days to do each of their turns ) re tech discussions with LL - if you can sufficiently stall them until we chat with you, that would be better Regards, Sharpe

	07-04-2004 06:21									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OPD's response to my PM:

quote: Well we'd rather not stall any longer really, I did ask about the tech quite a while ago, if the lux are ok then we can start trading asap as we have had a harbor for a while now, also what happened to the WM, why did you say you were going to give us a WM then not do so? Also we're still waiting for what you think to the proposal from CoD that we both stay out of the proceedings on each others continent? Perhaps you will be on IRC later on today?

	07-04-2004 08:24									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: OPD, This is largely my own fault. I apologize I posted the orders to get the lux deal and the map trades done, but am selling my house and moving in RL, and haven't had chance to follow up to see if it actually took place. I just got done chewing out the team on the map and contact deals, as these involved 3 teams, and it was rectified with this save.. I just heard of this lux failure as well. Unfortunately they have already passed the save, so it will be next turn. I'm as unhappy about this situation as you guys. On the Tech trade, we will also send you Feudalism next turn with a 20 turn no-trade clause, and ask that you research Chivalry in return for it. -UnOrthOdOx