25-10-2003 06:29									#1
	MAST Correspondance Thread Enter the AD-FREE zone

All correspondance with MAST should go here.

Reply to the game save from OPD:

quote: Hello Ben, and greetings from MAST, thankyou very much for sending the save to Bongo aswell, it's much appreciated. I am happy to announce that we have ingame contact!!!! I hope we can have a mutually beneficial relationship. We don't plan on being as deceitful in game as our theme suggests, although we'll probably have to work twice as hard to get anyone to trust us We have offered you Mysticism ingame, rest assured that it is not a size one city renamed Mysticism. opd

	26-10-2003 00:34									#2
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Just loaded up the new save - MAST has offered us Mysticism and they DON'T have Bronze Working, The Wheel and Masonry (wow LL and Sunshine must not have traded them much). We should find a good match among those for Mysticism and PM them to ask them what tech they have telling them we have 2 other techs that they don't

I agree we should contact them before we play the turn.

Whether or not we can get to them before the 24 hour limit (darnit, stop sending the saves in the middle of the night CoD! ), I think we should offer Masonry in exchange for Myst. It's the same tech point value and about the same usefulness.

	26-10-2003 00:44									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree to only offer the one tech...after the tech deal is done we can see about trading for other things they may have.

I think the problem with middle of the night saves is that Frustrated Poet is from England so his morningtime is our nighttime...especially mine since I'm a west-coaster.

	26-10-2003 00:52									#4
	Remove this text

PMed to OPD:

quote: Greetings MAST! Tabemono is glad to meet you. We appreciate the offer of Mysticism and offer Masonry in return. Would you be willing to chat? We can meet in #apolyton and go to a private channel from there.

quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I think the problem with middle of the night saves is that Frustrated Poet is from England so his morningtime is our nighttime...especially mine since I'm a west-coaster.

Yes, I think Arrian is the only player in an american timezone.

	26-10-2003 00:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, Arnelos is in Washington D.C. so that's fine, but I think you're right about the rest. CoD has a few new members, but I think Cort Haus is from England as well. Must be an Izzardian thing,

	26-10-2003 00:56									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sent to Arnelos as well (modified with #apolytonisdg) since OPD is off-line:

quote: Greetings MAST! Tabemono is glad to meet you. We appreciate the offer of Mysticism and offer Masonry in return. Would you be willing to chat? We can meet in #apolyton or #apolytonisdg and go to a private channel from there.

	26-10-2003 00:58									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

BTW, even though I'm on 'Poly right now, I can't join a chat since I don't have mIRC at work (yep I'm working on a weekend...ugh, waaayy too busy because of my planned vacations for October and November).

	26-10-2003 01:01									#8
	Tired of ads?

Better than me, I can't even get onto the Poly forums at work anymore because of a firewall...

	26-10-2003 01:23									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

From OPD:

quote: yes that sounds like a good idea... I'll talk to Arnie quote: Greetings MAST! Tabemono is glad to meet you. We appreciate the offer of Mysticism and offer Masonry in return. Would you be willing to chat? We can meet in #apolyton and go to a private channel from there.

	26-10-2003 01:46									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Sharpe and I are currently chatting with Arnelos. We're in #feast on apolyton IRC. Pword is glutton

Edit: We've signed the Masonry-Myst trade. Myst is the only tech they have we don't. They will be finishing Wheel in two turns, and know we are researching Math (we didn't give a completion date)

Last edited by Kloreep on 26-10-2003 at 01:51

	26-10-2003 02:39									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Brief (or not-so-brief ) summary: the Masonry-Myst trade has been signed. Arnelos stated we (us, Sunshine, MAST) are the only three civs on the continent and continued to talk that way, so either they do not know about LL or do and are trying to keep us from contacting them, not realizing Sunshine has told us. If they don't know, that means Sunshine is willing to tell us but not MAST. Interesting dynamics here. Also, MAST has a NAP with Sunshine, and we told Arnelos we do too. Arnelos claimed Sunshine got two techs out of huts and said MAST has popped 4 huts and gotten barbs each time. (The jag going by us IS damaged...)

MAST will be finished with the Wheel in 2 turns and is considering either Horseback Riding and Polytheism after that. They know we are researching Math but not our completion time. Arnelos suggested that we should all co-exist peacefully and trade to keep up with the undiscovered civs, stating everyone has quite enough room. (And so far it seems true there's a lot of room between each civ, though Sharpe and I both bet we're a little squeezed on good land compared to Sunshine and MAST.)

Full log:

quote: * Now talking in #feast * Kloreep sets mode: +ns * Kloreep sets mode: +k gluttony * Sharpe-chore has joined #feast * Sharpe-chore is now known as Sharpe * Arnelos has joined #feast Arnelos> hey * Kloreep sets mode: +oo Arnelos Sharpe Sharpe> Hi! Arnelos> it's about time we made contact Arnelos> out of interest - anything other than Masonry to trade? Arnelos> not that I couldn't find out by beaker counting myself, but you can save me the trouble Kloreep> We wanted to ask you the same thing Arnelos> lemme look Arnelos> I honestly don't know the answer to that Kloreep> We have Wheel and BW Arnelos> since OPD played the save Arnelos> ok, loading up the save to look * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_phone * Arnelos_phone is now known as Arnelos Arnelos> ok Arnelos> fun, beaker counting you guys have BW, Masonry, AND Wheel Arnelos> all we have is Mysticism Arnelos> even trade for Masonry, so we'll take it Kloreep> Okay Kloreep> We'll put Masonry on the table and accept this turn Sharpe> k, we can send it accepted this turn Arnelos> sounds good Sharpe> great minds think alike eh Kloreep? Kloreep> Yep Arnelos> so, anything else? Arnelos> what are you guys researching? Sharpe> Mathematics Arnelos> nifty Sharpe> you? Arnelos> we'll be done with Wheel in 2 turns Arnelos> then we'll see... either Polytheism or HBR, I'll bet Arnelos> least likely ones to already be under research Sharpe> yeah, so who do you guys have contact with? Arnelos> I'll tell you if you tell me Kloreep> Sunshine and you guys Kloreep> That's all so far Arnelos> same here Arnelos> Sunshine and you Arnelos> looks like we have quite a large continent to the three of us Arnelos> with Jaguar Warriors, we've explored quite a bit Arnelos> still more area to explore, but I doubt there's anyone hiding there Arnelos> if someone was in the remaining hiding places, they would have sent out their own warrior to explore Sharpe> true, your jaguar speed should uncover a lot of ground Arnelos> lots of jungle, it turns out Arnelos> where he's slow Kloreep> We've seen some of the jungle, yeah Arnelos> but there's plenty of open terrain south of jungle as well Sharpe> yeah, you guys east or west of Sunshine? Arnelos> if you don't know, not telling Arnelos> you'll find us Arnelos> the other continent must have the rest of the civs on it Arnelos> assuming there's another Kloreep> Yeah, could be more than one landmass Sharpe> must be Arnelos> Monkeys, Latin Lovers, Monty Python, Cake or Death Kloreep> Though I doubt Panzer would have let anyone be isolated on their own landmass. Not unless it's across a channel from another continent, anywy Arnelos> I Arnelos> I'd say we each have plenty of land on this continent Arnelos> what civ are you guys again? Kloreep> China Arnelos> ah Sharpe> China, and you are Aztecs? Arnelos> yeah Arnelos> Sunshine is Greece Sharpe> this jungle is good for us being industrious I guess , but not much more use for it Arnelos> yeah Kloreep> Yeah, jungle is only better than desert Arnelos> I figure our 3 civs need to keep each other around to get ahead/stay ahead in tech at least until the other continent is contacted... Arnelos> I think we'd be interested in a NAP, but I'd have to talk to the other guys to be sure about that sounds interesting Sharpe> if the other continent has 4 civs either they will cooperate to our detriment or war with each other and end up with superpowers Sharpe> either way we lose Arnelos> there's so much land on this continent that wiping someone out would be a true waste... any conquered lands would be hopelessly corrupt... expenditure on a war would be wasteful.... and trading techs is better Sharpe> agreed Kloreep> Yep Arnelos> we can satisfy our need for war against the other continent if they try to surpass us Sharpe> so much land that building harbors may be the only way to trade luxuries as the roads would be too long Arnelos> quite possibly Kloreep> Yeah Kloreep> Plus, if roads have to go through jungle, that's a pain Sharpe> well if both of us agree to peace on the continent - all we have to do is get sunshine to agree Arnelos> we should have a 3-way chat at some point to discuss it Sharpe> they ok with you guys so far? Arnelos> a continental alliance of sorts Arnelos> yes Arnelos> we already have a NAP with them Kloreep> We signed a NAP with them too recently Arnelos> I figure our MAST concept can be used in brothership with our continental allies against the crusader oppressors of the other continent Sharpe> between the 3 of us we have a lot of dissimilar civ traits that would bode well for all of us , your exploration, our industriousness, Sunshine's scientfic Arnelos> well, we're not actually expansionistic Arnelos> Mil+Rel, with Jaguars Kloreep> Jags are pretty close though Arnelos> yeah Arnelos> but not really Sharpe> oops, true Arnelos> we popped 4 huts... ALL BARBS! Kloreep> The only downside is not starting with the extra unit Kloreep> Hmm, true Kloreep> No hut bonus Kloreep> We've been, err, "blessed" with some barb huts too Sharpe> yeah, we have had fun with barbs too - must be on either huts only or highest level of barbs Arnelos> Sunshine got 2 techs from huts Sharpe> hmm Sharpe> well we will send Masonry for Myst accepted when we send the turn in a few hours Sharpe> let us know what you decide to research after wheel Arnelos> ok Sharpe> anything else to talk about? Sharpe> other than life the universe and everything hehe Arnelos> Kloreep> 42 Arnelos> you beat me to the punch Arnelos> I suppose there are plenty of bounties on this continent for all of us to gorge and stuff ourselves full Kloreep> Yep Arnelos> no-one is likely to go hungry Arnelos> and, speaking of food, I need to go make some in RL Kloreep> k * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_fooding Kloreep> Thanks for the chat Sharpe> well I gtg Sharpe> Nice chatting! * Sharpe has left #feast * Arnelos_fooding is now known as Arnelos_makin_pasta_again

	30-10-2003 00:28									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Something I mentioned to Kloreep in chat last night. If a deal is struck with Sunshine for all that tech trading, maybe we can try to prod MAST along to polytheism and trade some of our tech for that one.

	01-11-2003 01:14									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

MAST probably should go for Poly, if only because HBR is the most likely tech for the advanced civs to pop from a hut right now.



From one of the "wrong save" e-mails I received:

quote: any word on possible tech deals? we'd really like to get BW and IW......

Hmm, should we tell them we don't have IW? Probably. However, I'd be okay with trading them BW; LL is likely more powerful and not open to attack thanks to their free settler, but MAST might be the one that needs some protection.

I'm not sure what they can trade us for it though, especially if they go for poly which would take a while. Maybe our deal would best be signed for Poly though; if we don't lock in a deal for BW, they might research HBR to trade for that, and that tech isn't as valuable to us as poly right now since it increases the cost of a mounted unit.

	07-11-2003 02:40									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Also we have ingame news, we have made another contact. We wouldn't normally tell you but from what I gather you were under the impression that it was just 3 of us on this continent have been acting accordingly.... we have stepped up millitary production in reaction to this....

Got that in an email from MAST. Guess we should let them know we've met LL too (as that clearly is who it is). Interesting that they are stepping up military, in contrast with LL who seems to want peace...

	07-11-2003 03:36									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm it appears seeds are being sown for war. We might just have the best position on this particular continent being up north while the other three are all well south of us.

	07-11-2003 06:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes, it would be great if MAST and LL took each other down. though one of them would win eventually, that might not be so great...

Plus, this will slow down research. But we should be able to get onward okay with just Sunshine and us researching.

	15-11-2003 07:40									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*bump* We need to get Math traded. The NTA with LL doesn't hold forever unfortunately.

I think we should propose a straight trade of Math for CoL, with us owing them 2 tech points on a future trade. If they won't do this, we can always resort to offering gold compensation; our treasury is up to offering 40 or so gold if necessary.

Thing is, I don't think they've directly told us they're doing CoL... IIRC it was secondhand from Sunshine. So I think we should send a general message offering Math.

My proposal:

quote: Greetings MASTers! We recently met Latin Lover too. They do seem to be a powerful civilization, likely due to a free settler since they had an early score spike. We recently researched Mathematics and want to trade it to you. Would you like to make an offer for it?

	15-11-2003 07:44									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sounds good to me!

	16-11-2003 07:53									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Zargon chatted with MAST and they know we offer Mathematics. They're considering what to offer.

Also, I included this with my e-mail to MAST:

quote: Our warrior Busboy bumped up against your border this turn. We respect your territory and will be withdrawing him. -Kloreep

	17-11-2003 09:07									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Sharpe and I chatted with Arnelos about Math.

quote: * Arnelos has joined #feast [Arnelos] yes? [Kloreep] Hi [Kloreep] Any new thoughts on the Math? * Kloreep sets mode: +o Arnelos [Arnelos] lemme check the save you sent [Arnelos] ok, got the save up [Arnelos] you guys need Writing [Sharpe] no we have writing [Kloreep] Odd that it shows we don't [Kloreep] You loaded 1600 BC? [Arnelos] 165 [Arnelos] 1625 [Arnelos] you have writing now? [Sharpe] yes, we do now [Arnelos] sorry, loaded the wrong save [Arnelos] you guys use different save naming formats every other turn [Kloreep] Did you not get 1600 then? [Kloreep] Hmm, I use the same naming format [Kloreep] Guess I need to coordinate with Zargon though [Sharpe] a good idea re coordination [Kloreep] What format would you guys like? [Arnelos] sometimes its ###_to_Al_Sahaf, sometimes Al-Sahaf_#### or something like that [Arnelos] doesn't matter to me as long as its the same one [Arnelos] well, you guys are working on Math and you now have Writing [Sharpe] no we have math done [Arnelos] interesting [Arnelos] well, we're a good ways away from the next tech, it seems [Arnelos] Code [Arnelos] why on earth we're researching Code I don't know, but we are [Kloreep] About how far away? [Arnelos] 15 turns [Kloreep] We're on Currency now [Kloreep] About 25 turns left [Kloreep] A little less I think, don't remember exactly [Arnelos] well, we're going to need math at some point [Kloreep] Math for CoL might work [Kloreep] That's unbalanced toward us, but we could give you IOUs or possibly gold [Arnelos] it may or may not by the time we get CoL, since Math will likely be quite cheap and it's already 20% cheaper in base value [Arnelos] that might work [Sharpe] would you prefer IOUs or gold? [Arnelos] we'll see when we get closer [Arnelos] that's a ways off, don't really know what we'll need or you will have available by then [Sharpe] would you guys be willing to forgo the IOU or gold if we traded math to you earlier? [Sharpe] or partially forgo [Arnelos] don't know [Arnelos] I'll post in our forum about it [Sharpe] k [Sharpe] anything else? [Sharpe] well gtg [Sharpe] Bye!

Seems they don't want to sign anything until they actually need math.

I suggest we don't need CoL until someone researches Republic

	21-11-2003 06:08									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

An email from OPD:

quote: Hello Tabemono, I was wondering if you had considered my proposal to you concerning the trade of CoL. We are currently researching it and would very much like to set up a trade for another tech with you for it, so that mast don’t fall behind in tech? Also would it be possible to also send the save to the following address? gerhard@kragleder.de opd

??? What offer?

	21-11-2003 08:07									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

:???: Did we miss something?

	23-11-2003 02:04									#23
	Got spare money?

quote: * Kloreep sets mode: +k bemerry * Rhothaerill has joined #feast [Rhothaerill] Hey. * Kloreep sets mode: +o Rhothaerill [Kloreep] Hi * Arnelos has joined #feast [Arnelos] hey * Kloreep sets mode: +o Arnelos [Kloreep] Hi [Arnelos] lemme go look in our forum to see if there's anything new there [Arnelos] I think I'm the only non-European on that team or something... so they post at odd times [Arnelos] odd, nothing in the forum at all about that note [Arnelos] oh well [Arnelos] So what are you researching? [Kloreep] Currency [Arnelos] hmm [Arnelos] didn't I discuss tech trades with you guys recently? [Kloreep] Yep [Arnelos] what did we agree to? [Arnelos] I don't remember [Kloreep] And I think we already told you we're on currency [Arnelos] lemme see what I posted [Arnelos] Math [Arnelos] Math for CoL [Arnelos] you guys were willing to pay us either gold or an IOU because of the 20% cost difference [Arnelos] and I posted in that thread a team discussion on how I thought you guys would make a great ally [Kloreep] Yep [Kloreep] So you guys are interested in signing a deal? [Arnelos] yes, we're interested [Kloreep] Sorry, got a little caught up with the turn [Kloreep] What terms were you thinking of? [Arnelos] you mean the tech trade or an alliance? [Kloreep] I meant the tech trade, but I'm interested in both if you guys have started thinking about alliance terms [Arnelos] the only one thinking about terms much as been me [Arnelos] but the IDEA of an alliance with Tabemono has gained some popularity [Arnelos] in short, because there seems to be a perception of more both mutual interest and mutual outlook on the game between our teams than with other neighbors [Arnelos] that said, this certainly does not leave out the possibility of good relations or even alliances with others, of course [Arnelos] that said, I think the team is being swayed to the idea that the ally we should seek is you guys [Arnelos] if you're interested, of course ;p [Kloreep] I can't speak for the team on such short notice, of course [Kloreep] But I'm interested [Rhothaerill] As am I. [Arnelos] good [Arnelos] I can't entirely speak for my team either on this, but I think they're being convinced [Arnelos] since I and OPD successfully convinced them not to commit suicide (phew!) [Rhothaerill] Now I'm curious. [Arnelos] one of the brand new guys from ND/GoW posted in our forum that we should just go rampage on the nearest civ for no good reason... another ND/GWT guy agreed and it might have gotten out of control if OPD and I hadn't stepped in and basically said "this is utter stupity"... vulture agreed, etc. [Rhothaerill] [Arnelos] vulture is from GS, btw [Arnelos] he's been our DM guy [Arnelos] along with me [Kloreep] Yes, I remember his Hitchhiker's Guide to GS [Arnelos] right [Rhothaerill] He's a strat forum semi-regular so I sort of know him. He's good. [Arnelos] yes [Arnelos] it's unfortuante that he can't take a more active role in turn-by-turn decisions [Arnelos] but he's basically the one writing our overall building plan [Kloreep] So, do you have any prototype terms for the alliance? [Kloreep] Or the tech trade? [Arnelos] oh, sorry there, was talking to my dad [Kloreep] np [Arnelos] not really, what would you guys be willing to consider alliance-wise? [Kloreep] Don't know [Kloreep] We need to bring it up on the forum [Arnelos] do that [Arnelos] I'll raise the issue of what exactly people would be willing to consider in ours as well [Arnelos] now, about the tech trade [Arnelos] at 24 gold/point, the difference in value between Math and CoL is ~48 gold [Rhothaerill] Tabemono proposes that we send Math-accepted to MAST this turn. On the turn MAST is finished researching CoL they will send the Code of Laws tech to Tabemono. Then Tabemono will send 48 gold to MAST. [Rhothaerill] Sound good Arnelos? [Arnelos] sounds GREAT, actually [Arnelos] better than I would have expected [Rhothaerill] We aim to please. [Arnelos] since the 48 gold covers the difference in price, there's no need to give us the tech early, but if you guys are feeling that generous, I'm not turning you down [Rhothaerill] We will need to officially poll it and then I will send a PM to you for written authorizations. [Arnelos] got it [Rhothaerill] Poll won't take long, and I don't think it will be shot down. [Kloreep] Turn on to MAST [Arnelos] ok [Arnelos] I just wrote a post to our forum about it [Rhothaerill] BTW, assuming the poll is passed, that would be 1500bc when we'd send math to you. [Arnelos] ok

Such stance-shifting people, aren't they? I'm glad to have a tech deal going. An alliance sounds good too, though we need to discuss what terms exactly we want. I think we should stick to research for now; a military alliance, even a defensive one that wouldn't let one side pull the other in, simply would not be fulfillable over these distances at this time.

Edit: Poll on the tech trade here

	24-11-2003 06:15									#24
	Tired of ads?

Chat with OPD. Whoops on Philosophy. Oh well, hopefully won't come up again.

quote: [16:32] * opd has joined #feast [16:32] [opd] hey hey [16:32] * Sharpe has joined #feast [16:32] [opd] sorry about that I was away form comp [16:32] [Sharpe] np [16:33] [Kloreep] Hi [16:33] * Kloreep sets mode: +oo opd Sharpe [16:33] [Kloreep] The team's approved the Math-CoL deal [16:33] [opd] cool [16:33] [Kloreep] We'll send you an official PM to sign [16:34] [opd] I've been busy last few days and haven't even commented on it in the MAST forum [16:34] [opd] everyone else seems to be cool with it though [16:35] [opd] so how are you guys finding the map? [16:36] [Kloreep] It's interesting [16:36] [Kloreep] Oddly shaped [16:36] [Kloreep] But then it was modified [16:36] [Sharpe] looks like we have a huge jungle on the continent too [16:36] [opd] yeah [16:36] [Sharpe] you? [16:37] [opd] it's a bit odd [16:38] [opd] Are you likely to have an excess of resources? [16:38] [Sharpe] not sure yet [16:39] [opd] oh BTW would you mind sending the save to Ninja Kid also? [16:39] [Kloreep] Oh, right [16:39] [Kloreep] gerhard@kragleder.de right? [16:39] [Sharpe] do we have the email address for Ninja Kid? [16:39] [Kloreep] I got your request, just forgot to include him [16:39] [opd] ok thats cool [16:40] [Sharpe] how are things going with the other 2 civs so far? [16:40] [opd] ok [16:40] [opd] perhaps you guys are having trouble with SS? [16:40] [Sharpe] oh? why's that? [16:40] [Kloreep] What sort of trouble? [16:41] [opd] well perhaps trouble is the wrong word [16:41] [opd] perhaps SS are not overly easy to work with? [16:42] [Kloreep] Have you had problems with them? [16:42] [opd] no not really [16:42] [Kloreep] We've had some communication difficulties, yes [16:42] [Kloreep] But they haven't struck us (or at least me ) as difficult [16:43] [Sharpe] yeah, and that difficulty was later cleared up ok it seems [16:43] [opd] hmmmn I'm very interested in this alliance talk that was proposed with Arniue [16:43] [Kloreep] Yes [16:43] [opd] Arnie [16:43] [Kloreep] We're still debating it in our forum [16:43] [Kloreep] What do you think? [16:43] [opd] I think it would work very well for team MAST [16:44] [opd] Although we would have to be clear on a few things first [16:45] [Sharpe] hmm, what things would that be? [16:46] [opd] first off the most essential thing would be that the allaince/agreement is completely secret from other teams [16:46] [opd] there should be no reason for other teams to think we are in serious cahoots [16:47] [opd] otherwise we'll likely get ganged up against [16:47] [Sharpe] yeah [16:47] [Sharpe] any idea how close the other 2 civs are? LL and Sunshine? [16:47] [opd] Also I'd like to think that information sharing be an important part of things [16:47] [opd] they have tech agreements [16:48] [Sharpe] yeah, I think we all have tech agreements though - we may reach the middle ages in record time ... [16:48] [opd] Also SS were able to get a warrior past their city of perla before that blocked off access to their continent [16:48] [Kloreep] Hmm, interesting [16:49] [opd] If we were to completely share info on relations with all other nations we'd be a mcuh stronger position [16:50] [Kloreep] Do you think LL might neighbor some other civs back there? [16:50] [opd] It's possible but I don't think so. [16:50] [Sharpe] or Sunshine for that matter - not sure how they are acquiring tech so quickly [16:51] [opd] what tech have they amounted? [16:51] [Kloreep] I think Sunshine may have popped some huts [16:51] [opd] hehehehe we popped 3 huts right next to them quite early in the game [16:52] [opd] all produced barbs [16:52] [Kloreep] Yes, we've had similiar luck with huts [16:52] [opd] what do "you guys" think to an alliance between us? [16:53] * Rhothaerill has joined #feast [16:53] [Kloreep] Hi Rhoth [16:53] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Rhothaerill [16:53] [Rhothaerill] Hello [16:54] [opd] The reason were particularily interested in Tabemono as an ally is that you guys suggested it it [16:54] [Kloreep] ? [16:54] [Kloreep] Arnelos was the one who brought it up IIRC, but we are interested [16:54] [opd] oh [16:55] [Kloreep] I think it could work well though [16:55] [Kloreep] I suspect LL will be stopping or at least dropping research for Legion upgrades [16:55] [Sharpe] btw were you guys surprised by LL's being on the continent as much as we were? [16:56] [Kloreep] That would leave Tabemono and MAST (and Sunshine) for research [16:56] [opd] yes, SS led us to believe we were alone [16:56] [opd] LL seem very keen on us researching CoL and Phil, [16:57] [opd] despite the fact that it's quicker to get to Rep with 2 teams researching one of those each [16:57] [Kloreep] They want you to research both yourselves? [16:57] [Kloreep] Interesting [16:57] [Sharpe] very interesting [16:58] [opd] yes they seem very unwilling to consider other options [16:58] [Sharpe] hmm [16:59] [opd] They could have trades set up to get all tech w/o having to research anything [16:59] [opd] that would be alot of Upgrades [16:59] [Kloreep] You know, I think Philo's already around [17:00] [opd] have you counted beakers? [17:00] [Kloreep] Hmm, not recently [17:00] [Kloreep] Have you? [17:00] [opd] no [17:00] [opd] I could do so though [17:00] [opd] SS only recently got Writing [17:01] [Kloreep] So do you plan to do as LL wants? [17:01] [opd] what leads you to believe Phil is around? [17:01] [opd] we will research CoL [17:03] [Kloreep] Hmm, let me check our threads on that [17:05] [Kloreep] Someone thought Philo seemed cheap after we got writing [17:05] [Kloreep] Still need to do an actual beaker count though [17:08] [opd] In terms of long term friendship what can MAST do to help Tabe [17:09] [Kloreep] Well, we're interested in Republic [17:09] [Kloreep] So CoL would help [17:09] [Sharpe] CoL will help us a fair bit for now, I think that we mentioned to Arnelos that we are doing currency [17:09] [opd] well I have to go to bed soon [17:10] [opd] It's been a long day [17:10] [Sharpe] one thing that I am worried about is the middle age barb rush - LL and Sunshine will be better able to handle it than us if it comes early [17:10] [Sharpe] us both for that matter [17:11] [Sharpe] helps that Sunshine and LL have units with 3 defense of course [17:11] [opd] the barb rush don't concern me that much [17:13] [Sharpe] guess you aren't having as much fun with barbs as we are then... [17:13] [opd] we being Rel would like Rep asap [17:13] [opd] were killing them pretty quick with our JW's [17:14] [opd] you haven't lost any settlers have you [17:14] [Sharpe] oh no, not even any units yet [17:14] [Sharpe] but they seem to be everywhere [17:15] [opd] well if barbs are your biggest concern your doing ok [17:15] [Kloreep] And we have come close a few times on units [17:15] [Sharpe] yeah the 3 of you MAST sunshine and LL seem to be close together in your borders [17:18] [opd] yeah I personally don't think the other 2 are going to try anything [17:19] [Sharpe] oh? [17:21] [Sharpe] hmm, HarryH just wondered when MAST was sending the save onwards to Sunshine btw [17:22] [opd] as soon as ninja or bongo plays it [17:23] [Kloreep] GG [17:23] * Kloreep is now known as Kloreep-dinner [17:23] [Sharpe] me too , supper time here [17:23] [Kloreep-dinner] Good to chat with you OPD [17:23] [opd] ok see you guys later [17:23] [Sharpe] yeah, nice chat [17:23] [Sharpe] cya [17:23] * Sharpe has left #feast [17:24] * opd has quit IRC (Quit: )

	24-11-2003 06:52									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sent to Arnelos:

quote: Math-CoL Tech Deal of 1500 BC: - Tabemono sends mathematics accepted to MAST in 1500bc - When MAST finishes Code of Laws, they will send it accepted to Tabemono. Tabemono will accept and then send 48 gold accepted to make up for the two tech point difference between techs. Signed by Kloreep on behalf of Team Tabemono

We're currently chatting with him in #feast. (We have to establish some other channels for use with Sunshine and LL sometime. ) Log posted once it's finished.

Edit: And received back signed.

quote: quote: Math-CoL Tech Deal of 1500 BC: - Tabemono sends mathematics accepted to MAST in 1500bc - When MAST finishes Code of Laws, they will send it accepted to Tabemono. Tabemono will accept and then send 48 gold accepted to make up for the two tech point difference between techs. Signed by Kloreep on behalf of Team Tabemono Signed by Arnelos on behalf of the Muhammad Al-Sahaf Team

	24-11-2003 23:55									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Log of chat with Arnelos from last night (this chat was following about 5 mins of Arnelos chatting privately with both me and Rhoth, during which he brought up the possibility - in his view, the probability - of an early attack on MAST by LL legions):

quote: [19:11] * Arnelos has joined #feast [19:11] [Arnelos] I should just add this channel to my perform [19:11] [Kloreep] Hi [19:11] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Arnelos [19:11] [Kloreep] Perform? [19:11] * Sharpe has joined #feast [19:11] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Sharpe [19:11] [Arnelos] in your mIRC options... auto-join channels when you join a server [19:12] [Rhothaerill] Hi Arny [19:12] [Sharpe] Hi [19:12] [Arnelos] anyways... I agree with your assessment, Kloreep [19:12] [Arnelos] in fact, as I said, I told OPD "COUNT ON IT" [19:13] [Arnelos] Manya, The Slayer, Master Zen - these guys are all early-game warmongers [19:13] [Arnelos] Niessah is something of a peacenik, but did he join the LL team or did he join another one? [19:14] [Sharpe] checking [19:14] [Kloreep] I think he's on LL [19:14] [Arnelos] ok [19:14] [Arnelos] he'd be their resident builder [19:14] [Sharpe] yeah, Niessah is on LL [19:14] [Arnelos] most of that team play very aggressive early games [19:14] [Arnelos] with Rome as the civ choice, I don't even doubt the strat [19:15] [Arnelos] of course, you might say the same about OUR team... but OPD and I talked some sense into them [19:15] [Kloreep] Yes, I was going to point out you're the guys who chose the Aztecs [19:15] [Arnelos] yup [19:16] [Sharpe] Aztecs - I just call them attack early attack often [19:16] [Kloreep] Have you discussed this probability with Sunshine? [19:16] [Arnelos] the moment we had contact with Sunshine, there was a contingent calling for blood... and OPD, vulture, and myself reminding people that 1-attack Jaguars on 3-defense hoplites would not have been pretty [19:16] [Kloreep] Heh, they needed reminding? [19:16] [Kloreep] Ouch, and here I was thinking you were planning on attacking LL... [19:16] [Arnelos] we have some of ND on our team [19:17] [Arnelos] it's been... interesting [19:17] [Arnelos] anyhow [19:17] [Arnelos] The only reason we'd attack LL is to pre-empt them attacking us and Tabemono... because you can count on it happening [19:17] [Arnelos] but I doubt it [19:18] [Arnelos] that we'd attack [19:18] [Arnelos] the pro-building early strat seems to have won out in the internal debate [19:18] [Arnelos] now... about LL... [19:18] [Kloreep] So I take it that's a no to discussing plans for a attack by LL with Sunshine? [19:18] [Arnelos] we'd be more than willing to do it... but probably not yet [19:19] [Kloreep] Ah [19:19] [Arnelos] in fact... I'm sure the team would JUMP at the idea [19:19] [Arnelos] I suppose I just personally don't like the timing [19:19] [Arnelos] what do you guys have in terms of a military right now? [19:21] [Kloreep] Enough to defend cities and units [19:21] [Kloreep] Plus some extras to keep up happiness; we're not in the lap of luxuries currently [19:21] [Arnelos] yeah, neither are we [19:21] [Kloreep] Frankly we're starting to get stretched a little thin, a lot of barbs have been appearing recently [19:22] [Arnelos] jags have certainly helped with exploration and we have a number of them, but we're more focused on REX at the moment [19:22] [Sharpe] yeah I think everyone is REXing ATM [19:23] [Arnelos] well, how soon do we believe that LL could move and thus how soon should we be prepared to move? [19:24] [Kloreep] No idea here [19:24] [Arnelos] of course, LL started the game with 2 settlers [19:24] [Arnelos] giving them quite the edge on REX if that's what everyone is doing [19:24] [Sharpe] ? I thought they got one from a hut? [19:24] [Arnelos] something like that [19:24] [Arnelos] their score was x2 everyone else in the first few turns [19:25] [Kloreep] Do you know what their land is like? [19:25] [Sharpe] yeah, they are still well in front in score [19:25] [Arnelos] we have not seen their land [19:25] [Sharpe] we do see that Sunshine is settling south so far [19:25] [Arnelos] there's a good amount of land to their south [19:25] [Arnelos] too much, really... going to be a problem with barbs [19:26] [Arnelos] this continent has A LOT of land [19:26] [Sharpe] yeah [19:26] [Kloreep] I imagine if LL still has good land around their core to settle, they'll settle it rather than produce legions [19:26] [Kloreep] Once their core goes up would be when the countdown begins [19:26] [Sharpe] true, especially since they have a chokepoint type city [19:26] [Arnelos] if we can keep LL from wiping either of us out, we should be fine for building on this continent for quite some time [19:26] [Kloreep] Unfortunately, there's no way to know [19:27] [Sharpe] I would imagine the first sign would be when LL tries to expand beyond the chokepoint [19:27] [Arnelos] true [19:27] [Arnelos] we're going to need catapults... [19:28] [Arnelos] legions are damn tough to fight w/o 'em [19:28] [Kloreep] Speaking of which, time for us to send a PM your way [19:28] [Sharpe] yeah [19:30] [Arnelos] hmm... I think it's a fairly safe bet that LL will probably have more producing centers than either of us when they flip to war production, so we're likely going to have to compete with them together. Problem is, knowing when that happens. [19:30] [Sharpe] hmm, if so question is what will Sunshine do as well.... [19:31] [Arnelos] depends on who is in charge of there at the time, frankly [19:31] [Arnelos] *over [19:31] [Arnelos] and I honestly don't know what to make of them [19:31] [Arnelos] don't know how much of their play will be affected by their theme of passifism versus the normal playstyles of some of their players [19:32] [Arnelos] such as BigFree, who's QUITE the warmonger [19:32] [Sharpe] lol, both in Civ and in chatrooms [19:32] [Arnelos] you seen any of the pbems BF is in? [19:32] [Sharpe] no actually [19:32] [Arnelos] I think there hasn't been one yet that he hasn't attacked his closest neighbor with swordsmen or equivalent [19:33] [Kloreep] Formal PM for the Math-CoL deal sent to you Arnelos [19:33] [Arnelos] that said, E_T and Togas are both more inclined to wait until later [19:33] [Sharpe] hmm, quite a combination since they seem to be switching leaders quite frequently [19:33] [Kloreep] Yes, how often is it they switch? [19:34] [Kloreep] Every twenty turns or so? [19:34] [Arnelos] and their theme is explicitly passifist... I honestly don't know what to make of it [19:34] [Kloreep] Hehe [19:34] [Kloreep] Again, I must point out you're MAST [19:34] [Kloreep] And you guys seem pretty trustworthy so far [19:34] [Sharpe] and you chose the Aztecs [19:34] [Arnelos] I'm inclined to think that because I know Togas, the entire "passifism" thing is a sham, though [19:34] [Sharpe] yeah, that is a possibility with Togas [19:34] [Kloreep] Who knows [19:35] [Kloreep] The Hoplite certainly can be used offensively [19:35] [Arnelos] trust me... I know Togas from RP Team [19:35] [Arnelos] Greece is BF's favorite MP civ and he uses the hoplite offensively [19:35] [Arnelos] but the rest of them may see it as a defensive tool [19:35] [Arnelos] BF likes to use sword/hoplite combo [19:36] [Arnelos] but, like we've said, BF may not be in charge [19:36] [Sharpe] HarryH is right now I think..? [19:36] [Arnelos] yeah [19:36] [Arnelos] I know nothing about him [19:37] [Sharpe] He's on Vox isn't he Rhoth? [19:37] [Kloreep] Hmm, also if they have a large area to expand in to their south, that may tip the balance for some of the warmonger-inclined on Sunshine [19:37] [Arnelos] perhaps [19:37] [Rhothaerill] Yes, sorry, in and out at the moment. [19:37] [Arnelos] they certainly have no shortage of land [19:37] [Sharpe] yeah [19:38] [Arnelos] they'll probably wait to fight someone until borders are close [19:38] [Arnelos] LL probably won't wait that long [19:40] [Arnelos] as for my team... obviously playing as the "Muhammad Al-Sahaf" Team, that creates certain credibility issues [19:41] [Sharpe] [19:41] [Arnelos] that said, the team is stacked with relatively cautious players... OPD, vulture, myself [19:41] [Arnelos] so, again, I suppose it's a matter of how much we're playing to theme and how much we're playing to what comes naturally to us [19:42] [Sharpe] you could change the name of your team to "Mostly Apologetic SimCityPlayers" team [19:42] [Arnelos] as for the theme... I think the argument that's won out is that we'd rather not commit collective suicide until at least guerillas are an available unit on the board and we can commit collective suicide appropriately [19:42] [Kloreep] Hehe [19:43] [Sharpe] yeah, nothing like having 2 3-defensive civs to change that strategy in a hurry... [19:43] [Kloreep] Right-o, we'll jot down the preemptive backstab for the end of the midieval [19:43] [Arnelos] lol [19:43] [Sharpe] do you know what the others are researching right now? [19:44] [Arnelos] that's a LOOOONG ways off. Besides, I see nothing wrong with having allies [19:44] [Arnelos] personally, no... OPD might, since he was more active communicating with them of late. It would be easy for me (or you) to ask, though [19:45] [Arnelos] the pitch I've given to the team is that it would be more fun to establish an ally and then go stomp on the other continent some day... especially those monkeys [19:46] [Sharpe] re LL , it might be an idea to get Sunshine into an alliance or at least a NAP to avoid a possible LL -Sunshine alliance [19:47] [Kloreep] Yes, so strange they don't want to create some open cropland [19:47] [Sharpe] though with Monkey we ARE talking about how many people on that team [19:47] [Kloreep] More than CoD [19:47] [Arnelos] Sharpe - agreed on NAPs with Sunshine [19:47] [Arnelos] we already have one [19:51] [Kloreep] Have you gotten the PM yet? [19:51] [Arnelos] lemme check [19:52] [Arnelos] sent back [19:53] [Kloreep] Thanks [19:53] [Arnelos] no problem [19:54] [Arnelos] you guys are being very generous [19:54] [Arnelos] the team appreciates it quite a bit [19:54] [Sharpe] well as you said you might need the catapults at any sign of invasion... [19:54] [Arnelos] true [19:59] [Sharpe] Just curious, what are your post Code of Laws research plans? [19:59] [Arnelos] not a clue, to be honest [19:59] [Arnelos] taht will largely depend on what other people have and are researching by then, I'd bet [19:59] [Sharpe] k, just thinking about avoiding overlap [20:00] [Arnelos] you guys are likely to still be working on Currency, shouldn't be a problem [20:02] [Sharpe] just saw the trade treaty, any idea on how long until CoL is done? [20:04] [Arnelos] I think 8-10 turns... something in that ballpark [20:04] [Arnelos] don't know for sure, though, I haven't played the save in the past 4 or 5 turns [20:05] [Sharpe] k could you give us a 5 turn notice so that we don't spend the money to give to you? [20:07] [Arnelos] sure [20:07] [Arnelos] I'll add that to the thread where I posted it [20:08] [Sharpe] k thanks [20:14] * Rhothaerill has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:15] [Kloreep] So, anything else? [20:19] * Rhothaerill has joined #feast [20:19] * Kloreep sets mode: +o Rhothaerill [20:21] [Arnelos] no [20:21] [Arnelos] sorry, was posting stuff [20:21] [Arnelos] alrighty, I gotta take off [20:22] * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_away

So, it's probably only a matter of time before they propose a defensive pact against LL. Thoughts?

I don't want to commit our military down there. It's a long way away and I think our time is better spent building what military we need and spending the rest of our production on other things (like the Pyramids ). Perhaps we should investigate a three-way alliance between us, MAST, and Sunshine; hopefully we could foist defense help off on Sunshine and we could bring something else, like a road between LL and MAST and/or cheap tech sales, to the table.

Speaking of which, it sounds like Sunshine has quite some REXing room. Onward to the south, FB!

	26-11-2003 10:31									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sent to OPD and Arnelos:

quote: I'm afraid I forgot to send Math this turn. Please accept my apologies on behalf of the Tabemono team; we will send it next turn.

	27-11-2003 01:14									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

From OPD:

quote: Not good enough, the deals now off... and were now at war.

Hopefully not serious. Guess we'll see if it is when we open the save.

	27-11-2003 01:33									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Interesting...they SIGNED the deal already! If that's how they're going to treat signed deals it might not be wise to continue trading with them too much. Unless of course he meant that WE are the ones they're at war with, but that's just folly.

I'd send them a note strongly requesting their reason for dropping a deal after signing it.

	27-11-2003 01:37									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sent to OPD:

quote: Are you serious? And if so, why?

Edit: OPD's now read the message. We'll see if a reply is forthcoming.

Further edit: And BTW, I believe it's us he's referring to in the war sentence. If they were at war with, say, LL, I think he would have said "we're not at war with LL."