28-10-2003 07:04									#1
	Global Warming is happening- What should we do about it? Inflate your Upload Space

I've read some biased articles that global warming is not happening, but really, come on. We all know what's going on.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/scienc...g.ap/index.html

I don't want to get into the same ole' argument about how humans aren't/are affecting climate change and global warming. We've done that to death. And I don't want to discuss the evil americans and the Kyoto protocol.

Basically it's already too late. global warming is in full swing. And I don't think we could do anything to stop it in the next 100 years. Though that doesn't mean we shouldn't try- but that isn't important for this thread.

What will global warming do to the world? How will things be different. global warming is more than just higher sea levels. Though this would affect many low lying areas. But it also affects things like hurricanes, rainfall, droughts. etc.

What I'm asking is if we can adapt to global warming. Can we counteract higher sea levels? Can we withstand more severe hurricanes, tornados, and droughts? Can we produce enough food to feed a growing population?

	28-10-2003 07:34									#2
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Hrm. This is why some people have started calling for enviromentalists to be seperated from the government. Seperation of church and state, you know.
"Those who disagree are heretics and wrong!" Ah well, at least you haven't called for burning the heretics yet.
Although this may be because of the amount of pollution that would cause.

Well, you know what they say about bodies. Quicklime, everytime. Or you could open a new chain of restaurants dedicated to "human recycling" (although you'd probably owe royalties to Harry Harrison for that one).

Wraith
"If people think nature is their friend, then they sure don't need an enemy."
-- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

	28-10-2003 07:41									#3
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The gulf stream will get shifted around due to global warming, this means that there will be very little to prevent places like the UK from getting as cold as New Foundland (similar latitude) while most of the rest of the world gets warmer.

	28-10-2003 07:43									#4
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Diss, are you aware that people have grown grapes around London at various times in the past when the climate was warmer?

Are you aware that agricultural settlements in Greenland were made untenable by decreasing temperatures?

Do you know just how much land there is in Northern Canada and Russia that could be extremely productive with a rise in mean temperatures and a longer growing season?

Are you aware that the Earth warms up and cools off over time all on it's own?

	28-10-2003 08:13									#5
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So you are saying there is no global warming right now?

see my link.

	28-10-2003 08:18									#6
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'global warming' is often a misleading phrase, I've heard that many ecologists are starting to use the term 'climate change' instead.

Last edited by General Ludd on 28-10-2003 at 08:26

	28-10-2003 08:20									#7
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Invest in air conditioning.

	28-10-2003 08:20									#8
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well it could be natural, or man made. It makes no difference.

We have to adapt. It is true we could open up more farmland for longer periods up in Canada. But we still have to deal with increased droughts and hurricanes and such.

	28-10-2003 08:22									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Invest in air conditioning.

And stilted houses.

	28-10-2003 08:25									#10
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"Global Warming is happening- What should we do about it?"


Invade Iraq.

	28-10-2003 08:25									#11
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that's done. now what?

	28-10-2003 08:28									#12
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I already posted a solution: IIRC, a French company has discovered a new cheap plasitic solar cell that converts solar power into electricity at costs less than one can convert coal into electricity in power plants. Massive government support of this new technology, should it pan out, would be beneficial to all and help to reduce greenhouse gasses all at the same time.

This leads me to oppose, categorically, Kyoto as completely unnecessary.

Obviously, he inventors of this new technology will become filthy rich. If the commies of the world can put asside their wealth-envy just for a moment, we can get this new technology to market quickly by relying on private enterprise to produce the new solar panels on a massive basis.

	28-10-2003 08:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I already posted a solution: IIRC, a French company has discovered a new cheap plasitic solar cell that converts solar power into electricity at costs less than one can convert coal into electricity in power plants.... If the commies of the world can put asside their wealth-envy just for a moment, we can get this new technology to market quickly by relying on private enterprise to produce the new solar panels on a massive basis.

You mean if you can get the oil barons to loosen their grip on the world and give up their energy production to a more cost effective means.

If any of what you said is true, anyways.

	28-10-2003 08:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident that's done. now what?

Didn't that fix everything?

	28-10-2003 08:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident So you are saying there is no global warming right now? see my link.

No. I'm saying it is supposed to happen.

	28-10-2003 08:35									#16
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... and that you are right that we will have to find ways to adapt.

	28-10-2003 08:36									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld You mean if you can get the oil barons to loosen their grip on the world and give up their energy production to a more cost effective means. If any of what you said is true, anyways.

I'm sorry, Osweld, I am sure you can find the thread I posted if you look. It references the news report on the new technology.

I assume you oppose the technological solution to global warming because it does not require a dismantling of US industry.

Right?

	28-10-2003 08:42									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I'm sorry, Osweld, I am sure you can find the thread I posted if you look. It references the news report on the new technology. I assume you oppose the technological solution to global warming because it does not require a dismantling of US industry. Right?

I didn't say I oppose it, I just have about 0 value for anything you say.

If there is a perfect solar sollution, great, but good luck telling that to the oil barons.

	28-10-2003 08:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I didn't say I oppose it, I just have about 0 value for anything you say.

Ah, another example of an open-minded leftist.

	28-10-2003 09:17									#20
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Diss -

quote: I've read some biased articles that global warming is not happening, but really, come on. We all know what's going on.

How do you know the articles you've used to arrive at your belief in Global Warming were not biased?

quote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/scienc...g.ap/index.html

From the article: "Researchers found that warming is prevalent over most of the Arctic -- some areas bucked the trend, including Greenland, where temperatures appear to be cooling by about 0.2 degrees per year."

How can that be? Greenland is the northern hemisphere's biggest ice sheet and it's getting colder?

quote: I don't want to get into the same ole' argument about how humans aren't/are affecting climate change and global warming. We've done that to death. And I don't want to discuss the evil americans and the Kyoto protocol.

Actually, it hasn't been done to death. When these threads have popped up in the past I posted links to graphs showing the paleo-climatogical record and those claiming global warming is man-made disappear. We're in an "interstatial" period of an "ice age", a period when ice sheets retreat and the planet warms up followed by another cooling and the ice sheets return (that should be fun ).

quote: Basically it's already too late. global warming is in full swing. And I don't think we could do anything to stop it in the next 100 years. Though that doesn't mean we shouldn't try- but that isn't important for this thread.

Then what's your point? Look at the paleo-climatogical record and you will see temps are actually quite stable and mild compared to just the past ~100,000 years. Temp swings over this period have gone from much warmer to all out freezes...enjoy the warmth while it lasts because humanity's problem will be staving off the ice sheets when they try to return... Of course people should have alot of fun walking out onto the continental shelf looking for shipwrecks and treasure when sea levels drop.

quote: What will global warming do to the world? How will things be different. global warming is more than just higher sea levels. Though this would affect many low lying areas. But it also affects things like hurricanes, rainfall, droughts. etc.

The effects will vary by region, that's about all we can say for sure. About the most drought stricken place (large area) on the planet is Antarctica, so if it warms up enough for it to rain there the ice sheet will grow faster. Temps were much higher when the dinosaurs were alive and the planet responded by increased vegetation. Apparently there's evidence from a couple billion years ago of a global "ice age" with almost all the land being covered with ice.

quote: What I'm asking is if we can adapt to global warming. Can we counteract higher sea levels? Can we withstand more severe hurricanes, tornados, and droughts? Can we produce enough food to feed a growing population?

We adapted to ice sheets covering much of the northern hemisphere so I don't think warmer weather will make life harder for most people and will improve life for some. Much of the world's potential bread basket lies in regions negatively affected by the cold.

	28-10-2003 09:18									#21
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The United States already produces enough food to feed the entire world more than once. The problem is getting the food out there. I'm sure we could deal with temperature changes. And the effects aren't all bad, just mostly bad.

	28-10-2003 09:28									#22
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Heat is good, think at all the old farts around the place that are stuck home!

	28-10-2003 09:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael The United States already produces enough food to feed the entire world more than once. The problem is getting the food out there. I'm sure we could deal with temperature changes. And the effects aren't all bad, just mostly bad.

And just to add to the "worriers" concern that the US economy not be destroyed because of Bush's defiance of Kyoto, Global Warming will double US agricultural output thus enabling the US, by itself, to feed 12 billion people instead of 6 billion, thus concentrating even more power in the United States.

	28-10-2003 09:40									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ned And just to add to the "worriers" concern that the US economy not be destroyed because of Bush's defiance of Kyoto, Global Warming will double US agricultural output thus enabling the US, by itself, to feed 12 billion people instead of 6 billion, thus concentrating even more power in the United States.

Now that frightens me. No one entity, when there are so many other entities out there, should have so much power.

But anyways... this information comes from...?

	28-10-2003 11:22									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Now that frightens me. No one entity, when there are so many other entities out there, should have so much power. But anyways... this information comes from...?

The official government reports on global warming published during the Clinton presidency.

US is agriculure will increase by 100%.

This, of course, is appalling to the environmentalists who seek first to destroy US power.

	28-10-2003 11:42									#26
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Heh, wait till you see what happens north of the 49th. You would be agricultural pip squeeks.

	28-10-2003 11:53									#27
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Tell your government to train lots of engineers in preparation.

	28-10-2003 11:56									#28
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Frankly I could use some warmer weather.

Rising water doesn't hurt me when I'm so high up in elevation.

	28-10-2003 12:04									#29
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Yeah, Canada will benefit tremendously by warmer temperatures. Which is why the leftists in Canada support Kyoto.

	28-10-2003 12:31									#30
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There is no evidence sea levels keep rising throughout an interstatial. Once the ice advance ends, sea levels rise until the interstatial is established and sea levels stabilise. Temps rise but with higher temps come more evaporation, more cloud cover which reflects solar radiation, and more condensation diverting water back to the polar ice sheets.

The Earth is a self-regulating mechanism...and to use George Carlin's analogy, we are mere fleas waiting to be shaken from a dog's back...