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JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:17
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US 3Q GDP growth surges 7.2% Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/30/new...dex.htm?cnn=yes

quote:
Broadest measure of economic growth at strongest pace in 3Q since first quarter of 1984.
October 30, 2003: 10:32 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. economic growth surged in the third quarter of 2003 to the fastest pace in nearly two decades, the government said Thursday, in a report that was much stronger than most economists expected.

Gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of economic activity, grew at a 7.2 percent annual rate in the quarter after growing at a 3.3 percent rate in the second quarter, the Commerce Department reported. Economists, on average, expected GDP growth of 6 percent, according to Briefing.com.


"This is obviously an extraordinarily strong report, led by the consumer, but also with good signs about the state of the business sector and business confidence," said Lehman Brothers economist Drew Matus.

The burst of GDP growth was led by a 6.6 percent growth rate in consumer spending, the fastest pace since 1988. Consumer spending grew at a 3.8 percent pace in the second quarter.

Child tax credit checks and lower rates of income tax withholding helped fuel the third-quarter spending surge, enabling the Bush administration -- which pushed for tax cuts earlier this year -- to take a victory lap Thursday morning.

"Today's report on real GDP in the third quarter shows that the president's economic policies are having a positive impact on the economy," Treasury Secretary John Snow said.

But U.S. stocks fell in early trading after the report, the strength of which was already expected by many traders. Treasury bond prices also fell, pushing interest rates higher, since bond yields and prices move in opposite directions.

Many economists expect the impact of the tax cuts to fade in the fourth quarter, and the cash flow from mortgage refinancings, another boon to third-quarter economic growth, is expected to diminish as well. As a result, most economists expect a slower pace of GDP growth, about 4 percent, in the fourth quarter.

A decline in business inventories in the third quarter, however, could mean GDP will get a boost in the fourth quarter, if and when businesses re-stock their shelves.

"The plunge in inventory accumulation does suggest that firms are not confident enough to add merchandise to their shelves," said Anthony Chan, chief economist at Banc One Investment Advisors. "But they will not be able to do this indefinitely because everyone knows that sporting empty shelves in an rising growth environment is not prudent."

In a separate report, the Labor Department said new weekly claims for unemployment benefits were still relatively high in the week ending Oct. 25, pointing to the Achilles' heel of the strengthening economy: a sluggish job market.

In fact, during a quarter with the strongest growth rate since 1984, non-farm payrolls shed a total of 41,000 jobs, according to Labor Department statistics, in part because of strong productivity growth, which enables companies to get more work out of fewer workers.

But job growth is typically a lagging economic indicator, and most economists hope that continued strong demand will eventually catch up with the recent gains in productivity and lead to sustained job growth.

"Since no new jobs were generated in the third quarter, the growth story is entirely based on productivity," said Bill Cheney, chief economist at John Hancock Financial Services in Boston. "The good news for workers is that productivity growth cannot continue at this pace. Demand will translate into jobs very soon, and in fact I think it's happening right now."

"But that's still largely a hope, not a certainty," Cheney added.

Much of the strength in consumer spending in the third quarter was in durable goods, items meant to last three years or more, and much of that strength was in sales of motor vehicles and parts, which alone contributed 1.17 percentage points to the total pace of GDP growth.

Record home sales also contributed to GDP growth in the quarter; residential investment boomed to a 20.4 percent annual pace, compared with 6.6 percent in the second quarter. Residential investment contributed nearly a full percentage point to the total GDP growth rate.

Nonresidential fixed investment rose at a 11.1-percent annual rate, following the second quarter's 7.3 percent pace, a sign of continuing strength in business spending. Investment in equipment and software rose at a 15.4 percent pace, compared with 8.3 percent in the second quarter. Spending on equipment and software contributed 1.18 percentage points to the total GDP growth rate.

Weakness in imports -- which subtract from GDP, since they represent goods and services bought from other nations -- also helped total GDP growth. Imports grew at just a 0.1 percent pace in the quarter, while exports surged at a 9.3 percent growth rate.

Government spending, which contributed mightily to the second quarter's growth rate, slowed down. Defense spending, which grew at a 45.8 percent pace in the second quarter, driven by spending on the war in Iraq, was flat in the third quarter.

The personal consumption expenditure price deflator, an inflation measure closely watched by the Federal Reserve, rose to 1.7 percent from 1.0 percent in the second quarter.

The Fed recently left its target for its key short-term interest rate unchanged at levels not seen consistently since 1958, saying the recent surge in economic growth had not changed its outlook for inflation. The Fed has maintained for several months that it is worried about inflation getting too low, which could hurt corporate profits and economic growth.

"We believe that the Fed will require both consistent solid hiring and a rise in inflation before it begins to lift rates," said UBS Warburg chief economist Maury Harris.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Let's hope this continues. But a number of large companies are shedding employees (like mine). As of Dec 31, I am likely to be rejoining the ranks of he unemployed. It's not certain, but my boss doesn't see any projects on the horizon that he can use as an excuse to keep me, and with all the cuts, I don't think he's gonna be able to hire me outright.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:31
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Let's hope this continues.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:34 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Growth in the next quarter is only expected to be 4%.

I think part of what's going on is all the fire sales. I saw an add for Kia the other week, "Buy one, get one free" Lord, if only I had the downpayment.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:39 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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although the economy recovering is good, and that jobs aren't usually a prime indicator that economists use to determine the health of the economy, let us remember that people don't vote on abstract numbers they might or might not understand.

they vote on whether they have a job, have money in hand, and aren't losing their homes over foreclosure. if that doesn't turn around soon...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:43
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Q3:
More precisely people tend to vote more based on their perception of how the candidates will serve the general interest (and thus the voter's), rather than directly according to the voter's situation. I was very surprised of this when I read the studies.
(you may want to look for "pocketbook voting" and "sociotropic voting" if the topic interests you)

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:46
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This is good you have a high growth in Q3. Our growth in the EU is expected to be 2% next year (1,8% in the Eurozone)
Now, if only we Europeans had the sense to have a deficit-spending policy at the same time as yours, we could create a period of prosperity.
Unfortunately, our economic policies are too moronic and too egoitic for us to reach that

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:55 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
Q3:
More precisely people...


quote:
This is good you have a high growth in Q3. Our growth


i'll check those studies out, actually.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Now, if only we Europeans had the sense to have a deficit-spending policy at the same time as yours
France and Germany seem to be having a go at it.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:59 Visit DanS's homepage!
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This is excellent news!

quote:
they vote on whether they have a job, have money in hand, and aren't losing their homes over foreclosure. if that doesn't turn around soon...


Consider, however, that 94% of workers do have jobs, even if there is 6% unemployment.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:00
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As a side note, when I look for "pocketbook voting" "sociotropic voting" on google.de (the first google that appears in my adress bar), I have ads for HowSexyAmI.de

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:00
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I think that your policies are smart, actually. as long as there is no one deciding authority throughout europe, it's better to have at least some sort of regulation against deficit spending.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
France and Germany seem to be having a go at it.

Yup. And Portugal and Italy are now doing it too. Unfortunately, we are bound by the absurd "stability pact" which hinders us from having a real demand-oriented economy. And the countries who can follow the stability pact refuse to renegociate it. (Besides, it is a cycle: the countries who can't follow the pact want to renegociate; when the same countries can follow the pact, they refuse a renegociation asked by their peers; been there, done that)

I actually don't get why we in the EU are so fundamentalistic about inflation and deficit, when our economy is crippled because the € is too strong

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
This is excellent news!



Consider, however, that 94% of workers do have jobs, even if there is 6% unemployment.


Oh, no! You've just opened this thread up to arguments from Che and Sava about whom, exactly, constitutes "the unemployed."

Bad DanS! Bad!!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:30
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Got spare money?

Hey, you've given away Bush's new spin for his campaign.

"We don't have an unemployment rate any more, I'm tired of my opponents carping about negatives. From now on, we're only going to talk about the employment rate."

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:31 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Unemployment figures actually are getting better but more slowly.

This just puts an axe through the argument the democrats had that Bush was bad for the economy. BS. And like they would do a better job... sheesh... 7.2% is much better than anything under the Clinton years.

Jack_www is offline Jack_www
King

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Jul 2001
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:33
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THis is good news. Maybe now I can finaly get a job.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS

Consider, however, that 94% of workers do have jobs, even if there is 6% unemployment.


Unfortunately, we know this is inaccurate to at least some degree because unemployment stats have long discounted those whose are "no longer actively looking for work" however you quantify that.

Having sown the seeds, I now consign you to the real lefties.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Unemployment figures actually are getting better but more slowly.

This just puts an axe through the argument the democrats had that Bush was bad for the economy. BS. And like they would do a better job... sheesh... 7.2% is much better than anything under the Clinton years.


Yeah Fezzie-wezzie, you should work for the Bush campaign: "We'll give you one quarter of record growth, let's just no pay attention to those other 15"

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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time: 00:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:38 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
Unfortunately, we know this is inaccurate to at least some degree because unemployment stats have long discounted those whose are "no longer actively looking for work" however you quantify that.


While true, our participation rate is very high as well. This rate includes those who are in prison, or chronically unemployed, etc.

I don't think we exaggerate too much more than other countries.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:40
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All this bait, and no lefties showing up. Bunch of slackers.

Colon is offline Colon
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Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Unfortunately, we know this is inaccurate to at least some degree because unemployment stats have long discounted those whose are "no longer actively looking for work" however you quantify that.

Having sown the seeds, I now consign you to the real lefties.


That group is about 33% of the total working age population, according to the BLS' data. (definition here)

*sow sow sow*

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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time: 02:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:44 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Yeah Fezzie-wezzie, you should work for the Bush campaign: "We'll give you one quarter of record growth, let's just no pay attention to those other 15"


Actually no.... It has been doing fine...

Attachment: gdp.jpg
This has been downloaded 89 time(s).

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
time: 21:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez


Actually no.... It has been doing fine...


That looks rip' roarin' to me. Three negative quarters, three quarters of barely around one percent annualized growth, three quarters in the 2-4 percent annualized range, and 3 quarters above 4 percent annualized.

Woohoo, party time.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:05
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And how did your growth years look like? Annualized is all nice, but it would be cool to see non-annualized figures, but actual yearly figures...

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:07 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


All this bait, and no lefties showing up. Bunch of slackers.


Ahhh, you're doing fine, MtG.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:31
  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:08 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


That looks rip' roarin' to me. Three negative quarters, three quarters of barely around one percent annualized growth, three quarters in the 2-4 percent annualized range, and 3 quarters above 4 percent annualized.

Woohoo, party time.


All of which happened in 2000/01.

I hate you mtg... you think just because you are a moderator here means you are better than everybody else... well I had enough of it.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:11
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No, it's because he's smarter than everybody else here that he thinks he's better than us.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:12 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
And how did your growth years look like? Annualized is all nice, but it would be cool to see non-annualized figures, but actual yearly figures...


2001 = .3%
2002 = 2.4%
2003 = 4%?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:13 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
No, it's because he's smarter than everybody else here that he thinks he's better than us.


And he is probably way stronger than me so I can't beat him up...

 
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