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SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
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Sep 1999
time: 23:31
Angry  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:50 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Ok, This Is Bullshit. Rebels Attack; Int'l Groups Bolt Baghdad Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Enough is enough, and this bullshit is way too much.
Wimp bastards.

Rebels Attack; Int'l Groups Bolt Baghdad
1 hour, 1 minute ago

By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents blasted a freight train west of Baghdad on Thursday and exploded a bomb near a convoy in a northern city, injuring a U.S. soldier, as international organizations continued their exodus from the capital.

A top U.S. diplomat blamed al-Qaida for recent attacks in Iraq (news - web sites), and in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s hometown of Tikrit, U.S. soldiers raided six houses after receiving tips that the inhabitants were helping establish a "new terrorist network" there, a military spokesman said.

Also, in Baghdad, police said a motorist was arrested after trying to throw a hand grenade into a police station on the edge the capital's "green zone," the heavily guarded headquarters of the U.S. occupation. Police said the man was from Fallujah, one of the centers of resistance to the occupation.

Meanwhile, leaflets purportedly from Saddam's "Arab Baath Socialist Party — Regional Command" appeared in the capital calling for a three-day general strike starting Saturday. The contents were broadcast by Lebanon's LBC television station, but it was impossible to verify whether it came from remnants of the party.

The freight train was carrying military supplies near Fallujah west of Baghdad, when an improvised bomb set four shipping containers ablaze. No casualties were reported, but the attack sparked a frenzy of looting by Iraqis who carried off computers, tents, bottled water and other supplies.

A soldier from the 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division was slightly wounded early Thursday when a bomb exploded near a U.S. convoy in the northern city of Mosul, the military said.

The United Nations (news - web sites) said Wednesday it was temporarily pulling its remaining international staff out of Baghdad, joining other organizations in withdrawing after Monday's deadly suicide car bombing at the Baghdad headquarters of the Red Cross.

The International Committee of the Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontieres, or Doctors Without Borders (news - web sites), said it, too, was pulling its workers out of Baghdad.

"We have asked our staff in Baghdad to come out temporarily for consultations with a team from headquarters on the future of our operations, in particular security arrangements that we would need to take to operate in Iraq," U.N. spokeswoman Marie Okabe said.

She said it was not an "evacuation," and that staff in the north would remain.

Okabe declined to give more details, but about 60 U.N. staff members were believed to be in Iraq, including some 20 in Baghdad, after Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) ordered most others out in late September.

The United Nations scaled down its staff following the Aug. 19 truck bombing at its Baghdad headquarters that killed 23 people, including the top U.N. envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello, and a smaller blast near the U.N. offices last month.

The Red Cross said it would remain in Iraq but would scale back the number of international staff — now numbering about 30 — and increase security for those who stay. The agency has 600 Iraqi employees.

The Red Cross withdrawal came despite a personal appeal by Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) to remain in Baghdad because "if they are driven out, then the terrorists win."

On Thursday U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton said al-Qaida was partly to blame for the recent surge in attacks.

"I think the attack on the Red Cross demonstrated to many Iraqis that they are being used by al-Qaida and other terrorist groups for purposes that have nothing to do with the well-being of the people of Iraq," he said in an interview with British Broadcasting Corp. radio.

U.S. forces are suffering an average of 33 attacks a day — up from about 12 daily attacks in July. A total of 117 American soldiers have been killed in combat since May 1 — when Bush declared an end to major fighting — or slightly more than the 114 soldiers who died in invasion that began March 20.

The escalating violence has unnerved many of Baghdad's 5 million people. Many parents are not sending their children to school for fear of further bombings.

"Today most of my friends did not come to school," said 18-year-old Duha Khalid at the Al-Khalisa girl's high school, located near a police station. "We heard rumors about big bombs that will go off at the start of next week."

There also was an apparent assassination attempt Wednesday night against an aide to Iraq's most influential Shiite Muslim cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Hussein al-Sistani.

The cleric, Abdel Mehdi al Karbali, suffered head wounds in the explosion of a hand grenade thrown at him and his bodyguards.

In Baghdad, police commander Maj. Gen. Hassan al-Obeid announced measures to bolster security in the capital, including additional 24-hour checkpoints and special patrols around sensitive locations, according to coalition-run Iraqi television.

The Iraqi Governing Council, meanwhile, called on neighboring nations to crack down on infiltrators crossing into Iraq and provide Iraqi authorities with information about former regime figures who may be hiding on their soil.

The council "requests Iraq's brotherly neighboring countries to adopt a clear stand concerning those criminal acts that target Iraqi citizens and their civilian and security establishments, and their political and religious dignitaries," a statement said.

"There are more than 300 terrorists arrested thus far who have (foreign) nationalities," said Mouwafak al-Rabii, a governing council member. "We do our part to protect our borders and we hope our neighbors do their part".

Separately, Mohammed al-Jibouri, head of the State Oil Marketing Organization, said bad weather has delayed Iraq's crude exports from its southern oil terminal for the past three days.

Iraq, which used to sell about 2 million barrels a day before the war, is now exporting around 1.2 million barrels a day from its offshore Basra oil terminal in the Gulf.

The country has so far failed to resume exports from its northern oil fields because of a series of explosions and fires in a pipeline linking the fields to the port of Ceyhan in Turkey.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:52 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Civilians should not be expected to face warfare, Sloww. I can't say I like it, but I can't say I blame them either.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:57 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Every war has civilians involved.
These terrorists are pussies.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 21:57 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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this sucks, yes. but what do you expect them to do? unlike the us military, they don't have the ability to guard their convoys or have security patrols.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Every war has civilians involved.
These terrorists are pussies.


Compared to what you'd take for working in the US, how much would it take for you to go work there under these conditions? And no Rambo BS about all the hardware you'd take with you. Same conditions as any other civilian international relief organizations.

The simple facts are that six months into the occupation, the *******s are able to sustain a significantly higher pace of operations than they have been at any point in the occupation, and we don't have real control of the situation in the hostile areas - we're primarily reduced to reacting after the fact.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:02
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I don't think it is a smart move, though. These international relief workers will commute between their new home and Baghdad quite often, and these commutes are a dream opportunity to shoot them down

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:06
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This is exactly what people said would happen if the invasion was precieved to lack legitamacy. That's way Clinton took such great efforts to build a coalition before taking action in Yugoslavia and why Bush sr took such a long and careful approach to GW1. Bush jr had a reasonable case but alienated everyone instead of including everyone.

Al Quada and the Baathists have an easy road. All they have to do is keep bombing things or shotting people and then all of the aid agencies will leave. This is what happened in south Vietnam, Niceragua, and most other places with civil wars. Bush ignored the Powel doctrine and listened to Rumesfield (and Rumy was basically just telling Bush what he wanted to hear) so now we're in a mess.

Can someone please tell me why Bush ignored everyone on his staff who had military experience and listened to a brown noiser with no military experience? It's a military campaign so when the military says it would be better to have three times as many troops so they can provide better security and that portable generaters would be needed to restore power after the fighting then maybe he should have listened?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Compared to what you'd take for working in the US, how much would it take for you to go work there under these conditions? And no Rambo BS about all the hardware you'd take with you. Same conditions as any other civilian international relief organizations.


MtG: The solution is to try to nativize oppurations. Instead of having foriegners come in and run things you send them home and you try to set up locals who blend in and who are less of a target. Yes, that will mean less experienced people calling the shots and it will be hard to find qualified personnel but who else is going to want to stay there?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:12 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Civilians should not be expected to face warfare, Sloww. I can't say I like it, but I can't say I blame them either.


Well forsaking the Iraqi people is not a way to overcome the obstacles.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:17 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
MtG: The solution is to try to nativize oppurations. ?


They are starting to Vietnamize, er . . . Iraqize the security situation. They are starting to mobilize partly trained Iraqi militias into the Sunni triangle, including teenagers. Bush's poll numbers are smarting so bad they are accelerating the transfer of Iraqi troops before they're ready for the job.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:18 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Well forsaking the Iraqi people is not a way to overcome the obstacles.


I don't see you volunteering.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:19 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Bush's poll numbers are smarting so bad they are accelerating the transfer of Iraqi troops before they're ready for the job.


What? No offense, but that doesn't make any sense.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:20 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I don't see you volunteering.


I got to finish university.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:21 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
What? No offense, but that doesn't make any sense.


Bush's ineptitude in Iraq is hurting his polling numbers. Therefore, they are trying to use less American troops in the area of chief combat.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:22 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
I got to finish university.


Well, they got to live. You hae your excuses, they have theirs.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:23 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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These relief workers aren't just relieving Coalition troops, they're there for Iraq.

I remember all the wailing over "collateral damage"; this isn't "collateral damage".

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:24 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Bush's ineptitude in Iraq is hurting his polling numbers. Therefore, they are trying to use less American troops in the area of chief combat.


Really? Certainly amongst my age group, there was a poll put out showing Bush is actually making gains.

Alex is offline Alex
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:31 Visit Alex's homepage!
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The terrorists have won. How long will it take for Bush to realize that?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:33 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
The terrorists have won. How long will it take for Bush to realize that?


No they haven't. Only anti-american commies say crap like that.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 30-10-2003 23:37 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Bush's ineptitude in Iraq is hurting his polling numbers. Therefore, they are trying to use less American troops in the area of chief combat.



And this is bullshit too, Che.
Give it a rest, will ya?

Not every bad thing in the fuking world is Bush's fault.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Maybe they'll have won if we're still there fighting in five years. They haven't won yet, since Americans still feel obliged to help fix Iraq, even most of the anti-war types like me.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
And this is bullshit too, Che.
Give it a rest, will ya?


You might try getting news from someone besides a shock-jock once in a while.

Alex is offline Alex
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez

Only anti-american commies say crap like that.


I'm not anti-american. I'm not a commie. But the terrorists have already won. They have won this war since Sept. 11, 2001.

centrifuge is offline centrifuge
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  Old Post 31-10-2003 00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex


I'm not anti-american. I'm not a commie. But the terrorists have already won. They have won this war since Sept. 11, 2001.



How on earth can you back up that statement...

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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  Old Post 31-10-2003 01:12
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i can hardly blame the groups for leaving Baghdad. But i note the UN is also withdrawing all but 10 people from Irbil in the North, which makes less sense.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


They are starting to Vietnamize, er . . . Iraqize the security situation. They are starting to mobilize partly trained Iraqi militias into the Sunni triangle, including teenagers. Bush's poll numbers are smarting so bad they are accelerating the transfer of Iraqi troops before they're ready for the job.


why send in teenagers when youve got gads of unemployed ex-soldiers there? You got a cite, Guevera?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez


Really? Certainly amongst my age group, there was a poll put out showing Bush is actually making gains.


Polling the campus Republikan Jugend group where you go to school is hardly comprehensive.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark


why send in teenagers when youve got gads of unemployed ex-soldiers there? You got a cite, Guevera?


Most likely, we really don't want either low-morale poorly trained, poorly fed, former conscripts, nor do we want professionals with unknown political reliability.

Sorting out a new Iraqi military force and training it is a very difficult job, especially since we have relatively few really qualified arabic interpreters, and the best of those will have far more urgent jobs.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 31-10-2003 01:46 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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You can just forget about being an umemployed ex-military being able to join.

Christ. Whine about age restrictions on damned booze.
Just wait until you hit an age restriction on the other end of the spectrum.
Total crapola.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
You got a cite, Guevera?


NPR, this morning (10/30/03).

 
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