31-10-2003 01:57									#31
	Re: Ok, This Is Bullshit. Rebels Attack; Int'l Groups Bolt Baghdad Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally quoted by SlowwHand By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer BAGHDAD, Iraq No casualties were reported, but the attack sparked a frenzy of looting by Iraqis who carried off computers, tents, bottled water and other supplies.

quote: The Red Cross withdrawal came despite a personal appeal by Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) to remain in Baghdad because "if they are driven out, then the terrorists win."

WTF

The Red Cross is not there to fight terrorism!
Has he lost his mind?

Great, now both the terrorists AND the US are drawing the Red Cross into the conflict.

	31-10-2003 01:59									#32
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BTW, I thought in Moslem countries, it's Red Crescent, not Red Cross.

	31-10-2003 02:03									#33
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What the hell is so funny about what you quoted, germanos?
Are you mentally damned challenged, or what?

	31-10-2003 02:08									#34
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Oh, come on Slowwhand, just imagine the scenery, will you...

	31-10-2003 02:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Most likely, we really don't want either low-morale poorly trained, poorly fed, former conscripts, nor do we want professionals with unknown political reliability. Sorting out a new Iraqi military force and training it is a very difficult job, especially since we have relatively few really qualified arabic interpreters, and the best of those will have far more urgent jobs.

We've been (or should have been) vetting them for the last 6 months. and i dont see why theyd be poorly fed now, any more than any other Iraqis, just cause they were poorly fed back when they were in the army. And I dont see why they should be any poorer in morale than anybody else we recruit. And theyre at least better trained than any teen militias.

Im not saying it doesnt take cost and effort, Im trying to understand Gueveras assertion based on NPR that the US is using teen militiamen.

	31-10-2003 02:11									#36
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara BTW, I thought in Moslem countries, it's Red Crescent, not Red Cross.

Its the International Red Cross (based in Geneva) not the local group.

	31-10-2003 02:11									#37
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AND

Frenzy makes me laugh by itself

[germanos jumps in Screamin' Jay Hawkins mode]
Frrrenyyyyyy...

	31-10-2003 02:12									#38
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Im not saying it doesnt take cost and effort, Im trying to understand Gueveras assertion based on NPR that the US is using teen militiamen.

Some of them are teens, which, BTW, is a violation of the Geneva Code (assuming they're under 18).

	31-10-2003 02:19									#39
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Enlistment minimum age is 17.

	31-10-2003 06:00									#40
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark We've been (or should have been) vetting them for the last 6 months.

"Or should have been" is more like it. Lower field grade officers wouldn't rate a lot of notice, given our resource limitations in intel gathering. And SF and ISS types billeted amongst the draftees would be fairly hard to detect. It's not like they have a nice Army personnel system all ready for us to use, so we can track down everyone by his military ID card.

quote: and i dont see why theyd be poorly fed now, any more than any other Iraqis, just cause they were poorly fed back when they were in the army.

Did they get fed and paid immediately once we took over in April, or were things in a pretty dicey state for a while?

quote: And I dont see why they should be any poorer in morale than anybody else we recruit.

If you were familiar with the early days of the post-Vietnam US volunteer force, you'd understand that one a lot better. For our purposes, the less they know about "military service" the less they have to unlearn.

quote: Im not saying it doesnt take cost and effort, Im trying to understand Gueveras assertion based on NPR that the US is using teen militiamen.

I didn't hear that one, so I don't know the basis for it.

	31-10-2003 10:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge How on earth can you back up that statement...

If al-Qaeda's objective was to make the US more of a police state, they were successful.

Now, al-Qaeda was allegedly behind the 9-11 attack, but bin Laden never acknowledged it.

	31-10-2003 11:17									#42
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The only thing he didn't do was a Perry Mason rerun style "I confess" in the middle of the courtroom.

And the level of "policestateness" is still one hell of a lot lower than some other place I could mention...

	31-10-2003 14:18									#43
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It is all a very sad state of affairs when people go to help others in a war zone and are then shoked that they get shot at...

I am just glad that these Red cross types were not around for WW1, WW2, Korea or Rwanda...

Ah well they are save in their motel rooms by now...

"yes that is right, press 1 for room service sir"

	31-10-2003 14:34									#44
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you really dont have any idea what youre talking about, have you Paddy

	31-10-2003 14:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The only thing he didn't do was a Perry Mason rerun style "I confess" in the middle of the courtroom.

Still, the nagging question is, why doesn't he brag about it?

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat And the level of "policestateness" is still one hell of a lot lower than some other place I could mention...

It's progress vs regress

	31-10-2003 15:17									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Can someone please tell me why Bush ignored everyone on his staff who had military experience and listened to a brown noiser with no military experience? It's a military campaign so when the military says it would be better to have three times as many troops so they can provide better security and that portable generaters would be needed to restore power after the fighting then maybe he should have listened?

Well, the predictions of how many troops would be required in Iraq meant that the operation was impossible to carry out if those predictions were honored due to a serious lack of troops on the part of the U.S. So the choice was do it anyway and hope for the best, or not do it at all. Bush made his decision based upon his analysis of the available data. Now we live with that decision.

	31-10-2003 18:20									#47
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quote: I am just glad that these Red cross types were not around for WW1, WW2, Korea or Rwanda...

actually, the red cross was in korea.
-http://www.nyredcross.org/news/2002/020425_koreanwar.asp
-http://korea50.army.mil/history/factsheets/redcrint.shtml
-http://korea50.army.mil/history/factsheets/amer-red-cross.shtml
-http://www.redcross.org/article/0,1072,0_312_220,00.html

not only that, they were critical in repatriating numerous pows.

===

as for the rest:
ww1:
-http://www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/medical/Arc/ARCintro.htm

ww2:
-http://www.redcross.org.uk/index.asp?id=105

rwanda:
-http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/rwanda?OpenDocument
-http://www.ifrc.org/where/country/cn6.asp?countryid=143
-http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/3e6f28fc05b3194dc12563e9005404ac?OpenDocument

next time, do us a favor and do a five-minute google before you make a BFA.

	31-10-2003 18:35									#48
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fez actually has some backing to his claims (for once) about the increased support for bush
http://www.dailytrojan.com/article....-study.46c.html

then again, that's also not the whole picture.
http://y.thekansascitychannel.com/h...pagetype=detail

that said, i myself will not vote for bush. i don't know who i'm going to vote for, but i don't just want to vote against him.

why do i not support him? i favor realism coupled with international organizations, not this neoconservative rubbish. i also don't appreciate his policy for nkorea: far too erratic, which hasn't helped us at all in our dealings.
there's also a generalized disgust with washington politics, with politicians like him and clinton, two sides of the same coin, and i don't much appreciate him for making spending increases that his generation won't have to pay.

	31-10-2003 18:48									#49
	Remove this text

I can't say I don't blame them... militant Islam has declared a jihad. It won't end. The only way it will stop is when all "foreigners" are purged from Baghdad. And without the ironfist of the US military, it will turn into an Islamic state.

	31-10-2003 18:55									#50
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Killing relief workers is a sure way to make Non-Muslims anti-Muslims, Sava.
And we ALL want that, don't we ?

Put your straightjacket back on and go back to isolation.

	31-10-2003 19:09									#51
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This specific attack most likely has nothing to do with militant Islam, rather the culprits were moved to do this by Arab nationalism (see my posts on this thread http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...50&pagenumber=2).

The aim of the attack seems to me to trigger reductions in freedom for the Shia, thus estranging them from the Americans and leaving us without any popular support left.

	31-10-2003 19:14									#52
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Just curious Ramo... how can you know the motives of their attacks?

	31-10-2003 19:17									#53
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Assuming I'm right in that it is the Ba'athists, the motive seems obvious (there are naturally other motives, such as attacking popular and international support for the occupation, but I think this is the primary one). They've committed acts of terrorism before in the hopes of pinning it on the Shia (and they've been successful).